BA vs. Lords of War - 3 Game "Punch Up"

[Morticon]

After CTs first regionals of 2014 a few players were in a mild state of panic. For the first time, a regionals had been opened to not only Forgeworld but also the new Escalation and Stronghold assault rule sets.

The top 3 spots were also dominated by Titan lists. 

“No surprises there” – many people claimed. 

 

However, too many people had either just forgotten, or were simply unaware of the tournament that had happened a few weeks prior; a 2000 point “no holds barred” tournament in which the top 3 spots were all non-LoW, non-stronghold lists. (Top spot taken by BA!!)

 

As a result, and as a TO for what is now known as the “tri-tourney circuit” (Veteran’s, Skirmish and Gladiator), I felt it was necessary to have a test run to see the power of the titans in case changes needed to be made to composition, or considerations for their power factored.

 

VARIABLES

 

Here were some interesting factors that too many gamers failed to note in the first regionals. 

 

1. Terrain was terrible. For some reason, the terrain was set up exceptionally open, with the majority of tables having no LOS blocking terrain at all. Other tables had partially obscuring terrain, but as those of you who have played Eldar, Tau or anything with Strength D – cover doesn’t really matter that much anymore. The lack of LOS blocking meant anything that was wielding Str.D had no issues whatsoever.

 

2.Lists were poor. Not one player factored their list to take on titans. Everyone played general lists that they would take to any old other tournament. Flyers are a good example of how to exploit Titan weaknesses. 

 

3.No stronghold. If memory serves, only one or two players made use of the benefits in stronghold – namely void shield generators. If you’re looking to face titans, these things are so, so, so needed.

 

With those three main variables, the odds were stacked from the beginning. 

I didn’t feel the shock was worth it on account of these considerations. 

 

And so the 1500 Punch Up was born.

 

We got a few mates together to try titan/low lists, and a few mates to try non-titan lists. Additionally, we would try theme to beat titans if possible and we would have some decent terrain.

We played 3 games, and only LoW lists vs. non-LoW lists.

Here are the results:


(EDIT: one result is incorrect there! Tristan was "WIN-LOSS-WIN" - my bad!)

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/titan_zps4c37eb71.jpg

 

The BA had no real issues (as far as I'm concerned, though the biggest threat was definitely the Stompa.  I would have also liked to have played the Lord of Skulls -which is scarier than it looks.

The following facts needs to be noted. 

 

1.A few wins on the some of the games where Titans won were exceptionally close. Nicks game vs Nick as one example saw Nick (SM) win with the last model on the table (his chapter master biker) claiming the relic thanks to a lucky 6 on the warlord table. 

2.Only one of the 4 non-titan lists had a void gen or any other stronghold items.

3.Two of the 4 lists were not themed to take on titans that strongly – but were general purpose lists – eg: Deathwing list, and to a lesser extent the DE list. 

 

Overall, my feelings and recommendations to anyone weary of Titans/Escalation are as follows:

 

1.Don’t stress – its not as bad as the whingers online say it is.

2.Fail to prepare, prepare to fail – If you do not make a list that can feasibly take on titans or LoW when you are expected to see them (ie: like in an open tournament) the problem is not that the titan is too strong. It’s that you took a knife to a tank fight.

3.Don’t forget the Warlord Table that helps you kill titans. 

4.Don’t forget you seize on a 5+.

5.Flyers are a noted weakness of LoW generally.

6.LoW cost so many points, they struggle to have a good, balanced army otherwise- like for objective missions. In almost all matchups however, the LoW would have dominated had the mission been Kill Points (in fact, Anthony lost 10-12 to gareth in their KP game [don’t ask! They rolled it separately by mistake] – and he only lost those extra two, because he flew off his flyers in turn 5 – had it gone on 1 more turn, he could have taken it.)

7.Combat is a weakness of LoW – though, units with Str. D combat weapons are REALLY, tough.

8.LoW are no joke. Don’t mistake my observations and thoughts as a dismissal of their insane power. They’re strong. Very strong. Mainly made so by the strength of D weapons- but these units have great weaknesses. 

I played the following 1500:
 

Mephiston

1x Furioso - Blood Fists

1x Furioso - Frag cannon, magna, melta - POD

 

5x ASM 

1x Razor - Las/plas

5x ASM 

1x Razor - Las/plas

 

3x Attack Bikes- 2MM, 1HB

1x Attack Bikes- 2MM

 

1x Storm Raven - TLAC, TLMM

1x Storm Raven - TLAC, TLMM

I wont bother with batreps (didnt take pics!) but the games were fun. 

 

 

Feel free to ask me any questions!!

Cheers,

 

M.

[knife&fork]

With so very few units, how did you manage to keep the bikes and razors alive?

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

I concur with everything Morticon wrote. I do not play BA, but beating superheavies is not as impossible as it sounds.

 

If anyone's interested in a non-BA army taking down superheavies (Wolves and Scars) I've a tourney report in my log below. Otherwise I strongly agree with all the advice given here - my only query is how he managed to win objective based games with two relatively small scoring units!

[JamesI]

With so very few units, how did you manage to keep the bikes and razors alive?

I was wondering this myself.

[Morticon]

Cover was good, for starters. 

 

But, I had the razors empty 100% of the time.  The bikes died relatively quickly in the games- but they werent the key units.

 

Key units were fraggy, bashy, mephy and the birds.

 

In 2 of 3 games, i had mephy in one raven, and a squad in another. I had the second squad walk on from the board edge. 

Id use the fraggy dread to try secure first blood (which he did in 2 of 3 games), and then the rest to clean up where possible. 

Incidentally - I had scoring units left in every mission (thanks to the Ravens though, in Big Guns, as I had lost my mens!!) 

I may consider a unit of scouts instead of the bikers- but i like them for scouring. 

[Midnightmare]

Good timing on this thread, I fought my first Stompa last night; damn those things are hard to take down! It took me until turn 4 or 5 (Big Mec onboard kept fixing hull points and he had a Kustum Force Field) but when they do go down you get a lot of VP.

 

I did actually use my normal 2k list (which packs a decent amount of melta), and it was Meph that finally took its last two hull points - I was wary of sending him in only when it was on its knees.

 

Of the superheavies I have seen in action they don't seem too terrible but I have never been involved in anything less than 2k with one or faced the Eldar Revanant (although I am sure I will as a lad in our club is currently building one).

 

My advise is this - be prepared as if you don't take it down they cause obscene amounts of damage!

[Morticon]

The revenant is actually the easiest of the lot if you have Meph + Raven. its only got 12Av and no -Str D attacks (stomp excluded).

 

 

Vanvets eat it too!

[Midnightmare]

I thought it had Strength 'D' guns? 

 

To be fair, Stompa's don't either (does have the 'D' chainsword though) but it had a nasty S10 AP1 dinner plate among other things and with the Big Mech inside, together with all those hull points, I did find it difficult.

 

Was quite fun actually :)

[Morticon]

It does! But the idea is to lock it in combat, rather than shoot it - if you play the shooting game you will just lose.

Its why Vanvets are invaluable.

[GAZ_AV_NZ]

Everyones using imperial Amrour now or should be

use a relic whirlwind with S8 AP3 no cover saves

That will do it with one of them dropping rockets

and dropping dreads and sternguard with combi meltas

[Morticon]

Isnt the relic whirlwind 30k ?