PFG Shens

[Dark_Master]

Hello Brothers,

 

I know the PFG in the transport has been nerfed, however how would a PFG in a fortification work?

I'm thinking Fortress of Redemption.

 

Also, can super heavies be protected? Or do they have rules preventing such things. I'm thinking of a hq on a bike speeding along next to a knight(s!) or even better a Fellblade.

 

DM

[march10k]

Super-heavies can be protected.  I'm not sure about a RAW reading, but the FAQ that the PFG only protects the passengers of a transport, not the transport itself, let alone a 3" bubble around the transport suggests that, per common sense, a PFG would not project a bubble around a fortress of redemption, either.  Interestingly, it could protect portions of the fortress itself...but not the whole thing, since according to the rules, it's actually four or five separate buildings, and it's impossible for a PFG bearer to be within 3" of all of them.

[Adper]

Unfortunately the PFG doesn't work on fortifications.  The PFG rules state that it effects any "model" within 3", and fortifications are classified as "Scenery".  I tried using that strategy using a libby on top of my Firestorm, and was quickly corrected by another player.  I guess it comes down to your interpretation and if your gaming group will allow you to play it that way.

 

I also thought of the same thing with my Knight and a libby on a bike for some 4++ shenanigans in close combat.  The base on the knight is so large that you could easily keep the libby within 3" on the knights base without the PFG touching the enemy.  Down side is that the knight doesn't exactly block line of sight to the libby like a tank does, so he will draw some fire, which could be good or bad.

[Syphid]

Unfortunately the PFG doesn't work on fortifications.  The PFG rules state that it effects any "model" within 3", and fortifications are classified as "Scenery".  I tried using that strategy using a libby on top of my Firestorm, and was quickly corrected by another player.  I guess it comes down to your interpretation and if your gaming group will allow you to play it that way.

 

I don't understand.  How is it not a model?  You purchase it as a part of your detachment, it takes up FOC, it can be shot at and destroyed, and is physically a model in your army.  I could see non-building fortifications like ADL not counting as models, but surely the Fortress of Redemption would be a model, or else how would you be able to shoot or assault it?  As far as I am aware you have to pick a unit or a model as a target in order to attack.

[exsulis81]

I'm with Syp on this, it even used to be tossed around in a fair number of lists.

[Master Avoghai]

Unfortunately the PFG doesn't work on fortifications. The PFG rules state that it effects any "model" within 3", and fortifications are classified as "Scenery". I tried using that strategy using a libby on top of my Firestorm, and was quickly corrected by another player. I guess it comes down to your interpretation and if your gaming group will allow you to play it that way.

 

I also thought of the same thing with my Knight and a libby on a bike for some 4++ shenanigans in close combat. The base on the knight is so large that you could easily keep the libby within 3" on the knights base without the PFG touching the enemy. Down side is that the knight doesn't exactly block line of sight to the libby like a tank does, so he will draw some fire, which could be good or bad.

Like Syphid, I dont understand.

 

The fortress is classified as "scenery" as well your space marines are classified as "infantry" and your rhino as "tank". So, following you reasoning, nobody could actually profit from the PFG.

 

Moreover, the exact classification of the fortress is "fortification". Scenery is a term reserved for the ruins and forest you place on the battle field without paying for that in the army list.

 

 

The only thing that would prevent using it IMO is if the rules treat a squad in a fortification like being embarked in a vehicle. If not, then you can use the PFG.

Don't forget to pu it inside the central corridor with the banner of devastation with a bunch of tactical squads on the top... :devil:

[Adper]

I have been spending some time reading through the rules to see if this is a legal or not.  All I can say is that it's definitely open to interpretation, and both sides have strong arguments.  Believe me guys I'm all for using the PFG to give your fortification a 4++ invul and intended to do so before being corrected by another player.  Seeing that I'm still relatively new to the game and the other player was not I just assumed he was correct.

 

I may have been incorrect in saying its classified as scenery, under further inspection from what I can tell they are classified as terrain:

   1. If you follow the 40K rule book, fortifications are deployed during the placement of terrain, and count toward that 2'x2' sections terrain count.

   2. All fortifications are given a "Terrain Type" under their description

 

 

Like a lot of rules that GW puts out, what counts as a "model" can be a vague subject.  I guess the real question is if terrain count as a model? 

 

Using the PFG to give a invul to a tank is one thing, but to use it to give a structure as large as the Fortress of Redemption is another.  That is just asking for some argument from your opponent, regardless of how awesome it would be.

[Master Avoghai]

Using the PFG to give a invul to a tank is one thing, but to use it to give a structure as large as the Fortress of Redemption is another. That is just asking for some argument from your opponent, regardless of how awesome it would be.

What you are saying is : "it seems so great that my opponent may refuse it because he will fear it"

 

It's full of subjectivity. Man I fear facing 3 drakes, would I say it's illegal?

 

The only thing I think would help is the fact that p92, the buildings follow some rules of transport vehicles, particulary for purpose of transport capacity. So, if we might follow the rules of a transport vehicle it means that :

1- the PFG would work only in the troops inside.

2- if the PFG is outside it will work only on the buildings within 3"

3- the banner of devastation range is measured from the hull of the building it's embarked in (that's why I'd put it IN the central corridor which is in contact with the 3 other buildings.

[Syphid]

I have been spending some time reading through the rules to see if this is a legal or not.  All I can say is that it's definitely open to interpretation, and both sides have strong arguments.  Believe me guys I'm all for using the PFG to give your fortification a 4++ invul and intended to do so before being corrected by another player.  Seeing that I'm still relatively new to the game and the other player was not I just assumed he was correct.

 

I may have been incorrect in saying its classified as scenery, under further inspection from what I can tell they are classified as terrain:

   1. If you follow the 40K rule book, fortifications are deployed during the placement of terrain, and count toward that 2'x2' sections terrain count.

   2. All fortifications are given a "Terrain Type" under their description

 

 

Like a lot of rules that GW puts out, what counts as a "model" can be a vague subject.  I guess the real question is if terrain count as a model? 

 

Using the PFG to give a invul to a tank is one thing, but to use it to give a structure as large as the Fortress of Redemption is another.  That is just asking for some argument from your opponent, regardless of how awesome it would be.

 

Actually the rulebook says that Fortifications are deployed before the placement of terrain, during the "Set Up Fortifications" phase which is followed by "Set up Terrain" (p.120).   If your models can shoot and assault it, it's a model. A fortification is definitely a model.

[Daevyll]

 

  If your models can shoot and assault it, it's a model. A fortification is definitely a model.

Exactly. A pfg is intended to stop shots, therefore if it can be destroyed by shooting it can be protected by a pfg.