Killing Guard - or Astra Militarum if you prefer

[Captain Idaho]

Interesting.

 

I feel the strengths of each are slightly different.

 

I'd'd like to point out it's hard to correctly space out your models when you're moving around the table or deploying the best part of 100 models in one third of the board. And with so many models it's not always possible to get an optimum space between models to lessen the impact of blasts.

 

And I'd like to also mention the crucial thing we've discussed indirectly earlier; if there is a space between the models to ensure they are not nuked by our blasts/large blast chuckers, then they will struggle to bring all their attacks to bear if you attack a refused flank.

 

Kind of reminded me of that old 40K quote "if the enemy comes at you in a great horde..." :)

[incinerator950]

That is assuming we're talking about the standard flat board everyone loves.

[Captain Idaho]

Well actually things get better if the Guard want to cram into a tight spot to hide from a fight ;)

[Terrified Templar]

Well actually things get better if the Guard want to cram into a tight spot to hide from a fight

And this is why I thank Cruddace for giving the TFC barrage.

EDIT: Also I'd like to add that a scout squad in a LSS would also be useful. With the cerberus launcher you have a 50/50 chance of blinding them. 50 flashlights firing at BS3 with re-rolls? Scary. 50 flashlights firing at BS1 with re-rolls? Not so much.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm mentioning it here in light of people missing it elsewhere:

 

You can melta attack a squadron of vehicles (say Leman Russ tanks?) With only a single target being in range of the melta weapons but because you have a bolter in range of the rest of the squadron you can hurt them all.

 

Works for assaults too.

 

Sneaky eh.

[minigun762]

Well actually things get better if the Guard want to cram into a tight spot to hide from a fight

And this is why I thank Cruddace for giving the TFC barrage.

EDIT: Also I'd like to add that a scout squad in a LSS would also be useful. With the cerberus launcher you have a 50/50 chance of blinding them. 50 flashlights firing at BS3 with re-rolls? Scary. 50 flashlights firing at BS1 with re-rolls? Not so much.

Personally I'm annoyed by it. Barrage should've been WW only, to keep them from being so similar.

Not like 4x blasts would be weak.

[Axagoras]

im just glad there not av 10, where a pen auto killed it, or a glance killed the gun on a 4+

[Black Templar 307th Comp.]

The nice thing about Leman Russ's being in squadrons is that you can kill more than one with a pod of Sternguard and combis. Might be worth taking plasmas, Tig with Div to pod in behind them and hit them in the AV 10. Too sick to run the mathhammer on that, I'm sure if I am wrong someone will correct me.

[minigun762]

im just glad there not av 10, where a pen auto killed it, or a glance killed the gun on a 4+

I get that from a table top perspective but just like how some Xeno MCs are clearly walkers, a piece of field artillery is not a living biological entity.

[Azash]

Slightly odd departure from the "pie plate'em to death" conventional wisdom.

 

What about a squadron of attack bikes...3x HB with 3x TL Bolters. On a T5 relentless platform, high wound with low model count. Also highly mobile and with the ability to take advantage of cover.

 

The ideal tactic I think would be to hit a blob from distance with the HB's for two rounds then close in get a round of HB+Bolters and assault with 9 attacks and 3 HoW to roll up the blob.

 

Not to mention with 9 str 5 attacks and 12" movement you can play hell with chimeras and weak side armor.

[Captain Idaho]

You'd do more damage keeping your distance with them and continuing to shoot them.

 

But I feel Assault Centurions would be the better option. Hurricane bolters still there to increase the kill distance and twin linked flamers. Probably kill most of them in a single turn! Don't charge though, let them charge you. Then flamer them again.

[Azash]

You'd do more damage keeping your distance with them and continuing to shoot them.

But I feel Assault Centurions would be the better option. Hurricane bolters still there to increase the kill distance and twin linked flamers. Probably kill most of them in a single turn! Don't charge though, let them charge you. Then flamer them again.

Sitting back sounds good but at range the guard will have more dice to throw at you than you will at them and more bodies to absorb the dice you throw at them. With Yarrick giving any unit within 12" immunity from shooting morale checks you can't break them with shooting. That's why I am thinking units that can hurl lots of dice (relatively) and then get in assault where they are vulnerable to morale checks. I can win one initiative test and the guard can pick up 20 models no armor saves allowed...that's efficiency.

 

Not sure assault cents would be my choice. They have to be transported to get in flamer range. That means a storm raven or land raider. So combine the two we are now talking 500+ pts for a 4 model unit. At say 1750 that is roughly 30% of my list...do we honestly expect that combo to last long enough against 1750 of guard to get there points back? Any guard player will throw everything including the kitchen sink at them...which is precisely how you kill of 2+ sv models (make'em roll lots of dice).

 

Also paying to take str 9 ap2 cc weapons seems a bit of overkill on guard.

 

A flamer bomb is not a bad idea though. A LotD could do roughly the same thing with HF, Flamer, and Combi flamer and 4 bolter shots that ignore cover. Deep strike into optimal range with reroll on scatter and do it all for less than half the points.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

The nice thing about Leman Russ's being in squadrons is that you can kill more than one with a pod of Sternguard and combis. Might be worth taking plasmas, Tig with Div to pod in behind them and hit them in the AV 10. Too sick to run the mathhammer on that, I'm sure if I am wrong someone will correct me.

The math doesn't matter; if any player knows you have Drop Pods and they allow space behind any tank squadron big enough to land one and deploy a squad... they sortof deserve to lose.

 

If there is one thing Guard have in abundance, it is cheap screens and board presence.

[Captain Idaho]

Well you'll not win in assault if you take on a blob squad with basic Centurions, especially if they have Yarrick!

 

Let's be honest you'll not brake them in Assault if they have blobbed up - Commissars will do you for that. You need to kill them instead.

 

I agree though; a Land Raider is requiring a very specific list building to work against shooting armies. If you don't have the right list you'll just write "Shoot me!" to win.

 

However in the right list you'll have a really stickler to deal with.

[minigun762]

 

 

The nice thing about Leman Russ's being in squadrons is that you can kill more than one with a pod of Sternguard and combis. Might be worth taking plasmas, Tig with Div to pod in behind them and hit them in the AV 10. Too sick to run the mathhammer on that, I'm sure if I am wrong someone will correct me.

The math doesn't matter; if any player knows you have Drop Pods and they allow space behind any tank squadron big enough to land one and deploy a squad... they sortof deserve to lose.

 

If there is one thing Guard have in abundance, it is cheap screens and board presence.

More reason to bring more of our own power armor bodies to the table I say.

[Black Templar 307th Comp.]

Thunderfire cannons are a good investment as well. 100 points for 4 blast temlates that are either AP 5 or ignore cover really don't do IG any favors.

 

Hell, all this talk about killing Guard...what about allying with them and grabbing a squadron of Russes of your own? Executioners or Punishers would be up to the task.

 

Actually now that I look at the Eradicator, it might be the best for killing Guard duties. S6 AP 4 Large Blast and Ignores Cover.

[Captain Idaho]

Although a great idea, particularly using the HQ squadron and a cheap Veteran squad to hang back (Chapter Serfs?) I still want to beat them with pure Ultramarines.

 

I'm stubborn like that!

 

Just imagine Tigurius hanging behind a Leman Russian squadron and giving them boosts whilst sitting in a Devastator squad - disgusting!

[WarriorFish]

if you can't beat 'em, join 'em... ;)

[Captain Idaho]

I can beat them.

[Azash]

Heck if we are using guard allies to kill the guard I am taking a squadron of there new wyvern tanks.

 

If a TFC is good then a squadron of wyverns is better. Just going by the numbers even with lower str and a an ap of 6 you are still dropping 12 TL blast templates at str 4 ap 6, that ignores cover.

 

If you figure your getting 3-4 models modestly under each template that's 36-48 hits, 24-32 wounds, and 16-21 unsaved wounds per round. That's conservative considering you can usually get more than 3-4 under a small blast.

[Black Cohort]

Wyverns also have shred, so that wound total should be higher

[Azash]

Wyverns also have shred, so that wound total should be higher

Yes very true I had forgotten that. Also I didn't mention the fact that they have barrage to so yet again its that awesome.

 

So factoring in shred we are looking at 32-42 wounds, 21-28 unsaved wounds per turn!

 

Edit: and a full battery of these costs you 195 pts

[Black Templar 307th Comp.]

I can beat them.

Yeah, they really didn't get anything too terrifying in the new dex. But I do like the idea of using their own tanks against them, cause I'm twisted like that.

 

That said, I think my favorite option is Pask in a squadron of three Punishers, because he comes with Old Grudges and his shots are rending.

 

Not factoring in rending, you're still looking at 27 unsaved wounds on most IG.

 

Not factoring in rending, 12 unsaved wounds against MEQ.

[incinerator950]

I want to throw a Defiler at them, for lulz.

[Black Templar 307th Comp.]

Well not all of us are filthy, warp-tainted heretics.