The biggest threats to our Land Raiders

[SnaRf.za]

So...

 

This is just a quick post to list some of the things that I have had issues with and possibly some ways to deal with them:

I am no expert in Mathhammer, but I try...

 

1) Necrons

 - Gauss and Haywire is dangerous.

 - Ghost Arks with Warriors inside and a Cryptek with Voltaic staff is stupidly effective at 12"

 i) Up to 12", assuming 5 warriors in the Ark

  * 30 gauss flayer shots, 3+ to hit, 6 to glance should give ~1.73 glances (Normally closer to 2-3 glances)

  * 4 Voltaic Staff shots, 3+ to hit, 2+ to glance, 6 to Pen is normally another ~1 glance and ~1 penetrate.

  = Total: ~2.73 glances and ~1 penetrate.

 ii) 12"-24", assuming 5 warriors in the Ark

  * 15 Gauss Flayer shots, 3+ to hit, 6 to glance should give ~0.86 glances

 
(At 12" these guys take my LR's out in 1 shooting phase almost every time. Let's not even
talk about how easily Necron players seem to roll 6's....)

 

  Their Achilles heel in my opinion is to make them move:

 

 - If the Arks moved up to 6" they snap-fire half of their shots with no effect on the passengers.

 i) Up to 12", assuming 5 warriors in the Ark

  * 10 gauss flayer shots, 6 to hit, 6 to glance should give ~0.14 glances

  * 20 gauss flayer shots, 3+ to hit, 6 to glance should give ~1.15 glances

  * 4 Voltaic Staff shots, 3+ to hit, 2+ to glance, 6 to Pen is normally another ~1 glance and ~1 penetrate.

  = Total: ~2.3 glances and ~1 penetrate compared to ~2.73 glances and ~1 penetrate.

 ii) 12"-24", assuming 5 warriors in the Ark

  * 5 Gauss Flayer shots, 6 to hit, 6 to glance should give 0.07 glances

  * 10 Gauss Flayer shots, 3+ to hit, 6 to glance should give 0.58 glances

  = Total: ~0.65 glance compared to ~0.86 glance

 (Not too much of difference if they only need to move 6")

 

  - If the Arks moved over 6" they AND the passengers snap-fire ALL shots.

 i) Up to 12", assuming 5 warriors in the Ark

  * 30 gauss flayer shots, 6 to hit, 6 to glance should give ~0.43 glances

  * 4 Voltaic Staff shots, 6 to hit, 2+ to glance, 6 to Pen is normally another ~0.23 glance and ~0.05 penetrate.

  = Total: ~0.66 glances and ~0.05 penetrate compared to ~2.73 glances and ~1 penetrate.

 ii)12"-24", assuming 5 warriors in the Ark

  * 15 Gauss Flayer shots, 6 to hit, 6 to glance should give 0.22 glances

  = Total: ~0.22 glance compared to ~0.86 glance

 

So, moral of the story:

Make sure that the Arks have to move more than 6" to take advange of rapid fire.

Stay a Minimum of 19" away with your LR's: If the Ghost Ark then decides to
close to within 12", you can beat the snot out of it in assault.

MM Attack bikes wreck their faces and you can reliably get them into range on Turn 1.

Black Knights can shoot them down, but will beat them to death in assault as well.

 

 

2) Orks

 - Battle Wagons with Deff Rollas HURT. A Lot.

 

My experience with these: Get an Assault Cannon or CML from a DWA up it's bum as soon as you can.

Lascannon's on the side armour work well too.

As a last resort you can assault them with Black Knights

[Xenith]

5 Necron warriors with Lightning Cryptek with voltaic staff in a Nightscythe are very good anti tank for necrons. The voltaic will generally do 3 HP damage, and 10 gauss shots from the warriors (7 hits, 1 will usually get a 6) strip the final HP from a raider.

[SvenONE]

Dark Eldar Dark Lances (any list worth it's salt usually has about 5 of them) and Wyches with Haywires/Grenade Launchers care not for our AV14

 

Edit: I'm also confused about some of your math, the Ghost Ark has broadside guns, so I'm not sure how you're getting all of those shots on a vehicle that has 5 warriors in it.  They have a 180 degree swivel, at 12" or less you should basically be in a blind spot.

 

I've played Necrons a lot since my friend and main opponent plays them.  I've never felt Arks have been that big of a threat since Necron vehicles (once you pen them) blow up so easily and of course they become AV11 after the first pen.

 

Edit #2: I should also note that most Arks are usually in support of Warrior Blobs that are slogging in front.  It behooves a Necron player to never really put their ark in danger since it's going to give them the regeneration shenanigans.  I'll also be honest I rarely see voltaic staffs since the destrukteks with Eldritch Lances.

[SnaRf.za]

Unfortunately, it was ruled in 3 out of the last 4 tournies that the Ghost Arks' weapons can swivel like a Land Raider's...

Simply because no-one could prove the Necron player(s) wrong...

 

Even with *only* Broadside guns: at 12" they are shooting 10 times from the Ark, 10 times from the warriors AND 4 times with the staff.

They pwn LR's IMHO

 

I don't know whether my math is accurate, but I try.. (Used the 416 Method)

[SvenONE]

Ahh, well if that's how they rule the ghost ark shooting that's how the rule it.  LRC kinda makes sense since it's one set on one sponson, doesn't make as much sense for the ghost ark but w/e.

 

Necrons are good vehicle destroyers without a doubt, like I said though, the warrior blob in front of the LR is most likely more cause for concern than the Ark itself.

 

You want to bait the thing to move close enough so that your turn is going to be a 12" move into melta range to pop it.  I would argue that Necrons are one of the most annoying and unfun armies to play against next to grey knights with all their "oh I have this rule that XXX" 

[march10k]

A nasty new threat is the new and greatly improved Pask, in a vanquisher. Twinlinked BS4 and S8AP2 armorbane with rerolls to pen. Basically autopen with AP2. And that from long range, which the necron and ork threats don't have. At least against those, you can charge from outside their threat range!

[Master Avoghai]

To resolve the problem, do like me : play 3 Land Raiders Crusaders

 

:P

[MadMek83]

And stay away from Khârn... That Khorne's nuttjob eats landraider's as he does eat characters in combat O.o but luckily Khârn is close range threat can be nullified with massive shooting or th/ss termies.

[Prot]

I play Necrons as well... I wish I could remember where I saw it but I swear I read a rule on the arc being a certain degree similar to the arc of a hull mounted cannon... I guess it doesn't matter.

 

But I know my BEST necron anti-AV is scarabs. I can flip a landraider in one assault easily.... heck anything at that point. What I recommend is anything strength 6 or template to get the multi wounds going.

[SnaRf.za]

 

I play Necrons as well... I wish I could remember where I saw it but I swear I read a rule on the arc being a certain degree similar to the arc of a hull mounted cannon... I guess it doesn't matter.

It DOES matter!

I would LOVE it if I could find a ruling with regards to this.

 

 

But I know my BEST necron anti-AV is scarabs. I can flip a landraider in one assault easily....

Scarabs I can deal with.. most of the time :)

[Prot]

Not to go too far off topic here but you guys didn't look very hard. ;) 

 

It's in the Necron FAQ  and states it very clearly that is 45*. It does clarify though that if one barrel of an array can see, they can all shoot.  Personally I've always played mine that way as calling it a 'pintle' weapon is quite a stretch in my mind. 

 

Hopefully this helps you out. (Personally I find the necron players have dwindled a ton in the last year but I guess they are still a real threat to av 14)