Astra Militarum Orders - Take Aim

[Morollan]

The Take Aim order says "All models in the ordered unit have the Precision Shot special rule"

 

Precision Shot is not actually a USR but an ability normally given to Characters. The rules for this (page 63) say:

If any of your character's shots roll 6 To Hit, these are Precision Shots. Wounds from Precision Shots are allocated against

a model (or models) of your choice in the target unit, as long as it is in range, rather than following the normal rules for wound allocation.

 

The part about needing to roll 6 to hit is actually outside of the rules telling us what Precision Shots actually are/do. In other words, all wounds from that units shooting are allocated by the shooter rather than the owner of the target unit.

 

Anyone see a way out of this? Pretty sure they didn't mean to do that!

 

 

Oh, and another little gem. Page 63 says:

Note that Snap Shots and shots from weapons that scatter, or do not roll To Hit, can never be Precision Shots

 

The Take Aim order, being a Codex rule, therefore overrules that and allows all shots from the ordered unit to be precision shots, even if they are blast, template etc. Nice work once again GW!

[Kierdale]

I don't think I'd try to use it either of those ways if I ever intended to play against my opponent again.

Expect this to be in the FAQ.

[Morollan]

I don't play IG so I certainly won't be using it myself but, other than the Dreadsock, I can't see any RAW way of avoiding this if playing against a Guard army.

[Gentlemanloser]

Me neither.

 

Guess it's one to add to the "hopefully in the new FAQ that GW need to release onthe same day as a new Codex to catch this sort of guff" pile, for when the FAQs magically reappear.

 

Edit: How many times do GW need to be facepalmed by Page 7 before they errata it?

[stinkenheim]

I'd say it was exactly the way it was written. Every round caused by the unit is allocated by the controlling playing as opposed to the target unit's player.

Illic nightspear has a similar rule that he also gives to any units upgraded to pathfinders.

'Sharpshot: shots fired by models with this special rule (excluding snap shots) are always precision shots.'

I'd still say that the list of weapons that are unable to benefit from precision shot still apply though as there is nothing overriding it in the codex. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that a model has a special rule it can't use because of wargear.

[Kristoff]

The Take Aim order says "All models in the ordered unit have the Precision Shot special rule"

Precision Shot is not actually a USR but an ability normally given to Characters. The rules for this (page 63) say:

If any of your character's shots roll 6 To Hit, these are Precision Shots. Wounds from Precision Shots are allocated against

a model (or models) of your choice in the target unit, as long as it is in range, rather than following the normal rules for wound allocation.

The part about needing to roll 6 to hit is actually outside of the rules telling us what Precision Shots actually are/do. In other words, all wounds from that units shooting are allocated by the shooter rather than the owner of the target unit.

Anyone see a way out of this? Pretty sure they didn't mean to do that!

That is correct, that is how it is intended. If you notice, also, a Relic weapon also has the rule "Precision Shot", even though every single model who can take it will be a Character. This is ample evidence to indicate that the Precision Shot is in place all the time in both cases.

Is it stupidly overpowered? Yes. Should it have an Errata to make it on a 6 like Snipers and Characters? Yes. Will it?

Oh, and another little gem. Page 63 says:

Note that Snap Shots and shots from weapons that scatter, or do not roll To Hit, can never be Precision Shots

The Take Aim order, being a Codex rule, therefore overrules that and allows all shots from the ordered unit to be precision shots, even if they are blast, template etc. Nice work once again GW!

The restriction on the Snap Shot is part of the Precision Shot rule, so not overrided by the codex since it doesn't specifically override the rule's internal condition. So, I guess if you have to Snap Shot, you can't fire while under Take Aim?

[Heru]

Edit: Point already made above.

[Raeven]

There is a slight difference though.  The models have the Precision Shot special rule.  Not the weapon.  This indicates to me that, like characters (models with the Precision Shot special rule), they have to roll a 6 to hit for the shot to be a Precision Shot and follow all other restrictions of Precision Shots.  But I'm not firmly for or against either ruling.

 

Only Telion that I know of, has the wording that makes every hit a precision shot.  This specifically over rides the restrictions of the BRB.

[Axagoras]

well there is no such thing as the precision shot special rule because in the special rules section it doesn't appear... The only way you can play it without being heavy handed in either way is to grant all models the precision shots on 6, since it makes the most sense

[alex567]

Just because its not under the special rule section doesn't mean its not a special rule,

 

Page 32 states "Most of the more commonly used special rules in Warhammer 40,000 are listed here, but this is definitely not an exhaustive list. Many troops have their own unique abilities which are laid out in the codex".

 

This tells us more special rules are available. The full stop splits the sentences, showing the second paragraph is merely an example rather than a constraint to the first sentance. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Precision Shots isn't a rule in any Codex though. ;)

[Heru]

The many sentence is an example.

[Plague Angel]

like characters (models with the Precision Shot special rule)

 

It's debatable whether characters technically have such a special rule, though. It's not worded clearly as to whether characters have the Precision Shot special rule by virtue of being characters, or if Precision Shot is a special rule that works in such and such a way, and characters gain the Precision Shot rule when they roll 6s but don't have it at other times.

 

I'm beginning to lean towards the former, personally, but I don't have strong feelings about either.

[Kristoff]

well there is no such thing as the precision shot special rule because in the special rules section it doesn't appear... The only way you can play it without being heavy handed in either way is to grant all models the precision shots on 6, since it makes the most sense

Not really. Precision Shots is part of a Special Rule of Characters, much like Hard To Hit is for Flyers, and referenced by the Sniper special rule. It is conditional for both to have Access to it, though.

 

Your solution ignores that a Relic also carries Precision Shot, which Characters already have conditionally.

 

 

 

like characters (models with the Precision Shot special rule)

It's debatable whether characters technically have such a special rule, though. It's not worded clearly as to whether characters have the Precision Shot special rule by virtue of being characters, or if Precision Shot is a special rule that works in such and such a way, and characters gain the Precision Shot rule when they roll 6s but don't have it at other times.

 

I'm beginning to lean towards the former, personally, but I don't have strong feelings about either.

Characters do have access to the rule, there is no doubt about it as it part of their Unit Type's rules. But conditions are given for them to access it, natively. The Order and Relic give no such restrictions once given, though.

[Ming]

Precision shot is a new 6th edition rule that was placed in the character section of the brb. Take aim is a new AM order that gives precision to all models in a unit, not just the character that might be in the unit. It is pretty simple. Overpowered but simple.

[Kristoff]

Precision shot is a new 6th edition rule that was placed in the character section of the brb. Take aim is a new AM order that gives precision to all models in a unit, not just the character that might be in the unit. It is pretty simple. Overpowered but simple.

And does so without the qualifications that both the Character Unit Type and Sniper Special Rule carry, either, if it was properly quoted above.

[Seahawk]

Precision Shot is not a special rule any model anywhere has ever had before; it's a special effect which takes place after the a 6 is rolled to hit by a character or sniper rifle.

 

The order either doesn't work because the Precision Shot special rule doesn't exist, or you have it work like normal, which would require 6's to cause Precision Shots (but that requires a LOT of rule bending/breaking). The order is not saying "All shots are Precision Shots." It's saying they "have Precision Shot", which fundamentally makes zero sense because it's undefined.

 

 

Either way, the lack of clarity does require a gentleman's agreement until a FAQ is delivered (in exactly 13 months).

[Raeven]

Got me looking in the interactive Space Marine codex, at Telion's rule.  His Eye of Vengeance gives the full rule for Precision Shot, which includes the sentence about hitting on a 6.  So Precision Shot is defined and you have to hit on a 6 to get it, unless you have a special rule that allows otherwise.  Like Telion.

[Gentlemanloser]

Why does Illic's rule specify it doesn't work for Snap Shots, and the AM Order doesn't?

[Seahawk]

This is why I hate the digital editions when they aren't deploying FAQ's. New rules are being introduced that puts the paper players at a disadvantage.

[Kristoff]

Precision Shot is not a special rule any model anywhere has ever had before; it's a special effect which takes place after the a 6 is rolled to hit by a character or sniper rifle.

 

Just because it is an affect doesn't mean it isn't a Special Rule. And correct that the Characters and Snipers both have conditions to apply it. But also note that when they talk about the affect's rules itself, the only condition is that it isn't Snap Fired.

The order either doesn't work because the Precision Shot special rule doesn't exist, or you have it work like normal, which would require 6's to cause Precision Shots (but that requires a LOT of rule bending/breaking). The order is not saying "All shots are Precision Shots." It's saying they "have Precision Shot", which fundamentally makes zero sense because it's undefined.

I disagree that it doesn't work. Read the part of Precision Shots in the Character Unit Type again after it talks about the condition. This would then apply to Take Aim and the Relic.

[stinkenheim]

Illic nightspear has a similar rule that he also gives to any units upgraded to pathfinders.

'Sharpshot: shots fired by models with this special rule (excluding snap shots) are always precision shots.'

 

Sorry to quote myself but the comment appears to have been overlooked.

Illic is a character armed with a sniper rifle. If precision shot requires a 6 to hit to take effect then this special rule (and giving pathfinders it) is redundant as he would already have the rule due to wargear and character status.

The only way illic's rule makes sense is that the '6 to hit' isn't part of the precision shot rule, merely the only way units/characters without the specific rule from acceding it.

As such I think it's clear that the models receiving the order would always allocate the wounds rather than requiring a 6 to hit to be able to do it.

[Seahawk]

Correct, in a way. Precision shots themselves do not require a 6 in their rules; it is because you rolled a 6 that precision shot takes effect. After that the rules are clear.

 

The problem is when a model has precision shot. Does this mean every shot is a precision shot; if so, then why not just say all shots are precision shots instead? Does this mean they need to roll 6's to activate precision shot; if so, then why not just say that 6's to hit are precision shots?

 

Simply saying "this model has the [potato] special rule", when the [potato] special rule doesn't activate unless a certain dice result comes up and is completely undefined when a model "has it" is immensely ignorant of the rules; or, it's in preparation for 6.5/7th edition verbiage. 

 

Models do not have the PS special rule.

 

Weapons do not have the PS special rule.

 

Shots from certain models and certain weapons that get a 6 get the special rule, and this is the only way the rules interact, other than extra special rules that say "all of this model's shots are precision shots".

[stinkenheim]

But characters only get the 'precision shot' rule when they roll a six.

Just like psykers only suffer the 'perils of a warp' rule when they roll certain results.

If a psyker, or other unit, had a rule that they always suffer perils of the warp then it wouldn't require them to have rolled any dice. They'd just be subject to it. Exactly the same as a character always having precision, they don't need to meet any criteria to gain it as they already have it.

It's really the only way I can see it working. It's certainly how I'd let my opponent play it.

If the rules said 'every model in this unit counts as a character during this shooting phase' then I'd say yeah, need to roll a 6 first.

[Seahawk]

Agreed, I think (if I read it right).

 

Until told otherwise, I'll be playing it as the squad can cause precision shots, but they need that 6 to-hit to do so.