Fluffy for a Night Lords Force?

[SyNidus]

Just to spark a lil discussion.

What would you guys consider fluffy for a NL list?

I understand there are schisms in the legion leading to warbands having different affiliations, but if a friend wanted to start a NL force, what would be a fluffy way to approach this?

[Rain]

Well the gist of it is that Night Lords prefer to use swift application of overwhelming force to terrify and annihilate any opposition with minimal danger to themselves. Luckily this lends itself to a lot of different tabletop representations, and mostly depends on how chaotic he wants his warband to be. Main limitation is that NL are not devout to any of the Chaos gods, so there probably wouldn't be any NL berserkers, plague marines, etc. that said, NL have been specifically noted in their IA to ally with other Chaos factions without compunction (viewing their allies as expendable tools essentially) so cult squads wouldn't be unfluffy so long as they are painted as another legion and not actual NL themselves.

 

So really, it's one of the most open and all encompassing Legions, with even marks being okay as some characters in ADB's NL books were certainly affected by certain gods even if they didn't worship them. Also cultists seem kind of an odd mix with NL since in fluff the NL tend to attack targets for fun more than anything and their style of warfare leaves little need or room for human fodder. Even then though, they'd use it if they thought they needed to. Which is the thing, NL are very pragmatic, they have no sense of honor, and look down upon those that do. They don't worship the gods and so would join a cult but they would gladly ally with a cult if they thought it would advantage them. No principles, no rules.

[Dark Bjoern]

You can go different ways. You can go for speed. In this case i would build them around a lot of bikes, Raptors and/or Warp Talons with a Fly-prince or a Raptor Lord. CSM squads in rhinos.

Or you move in the shadows. Using a "count as" Ahriman or Huron Blackheart to get the infiltation abilitiy. For myself i find Ahriman suitable as a prophet of the legion. Using CSM squads and choosen squads as the core of those list and let d3 of them infiltrate. Terminators as shook troops.

Heldrakes would fit in both lists.

[A D-B]

Well, the Night L--

 

Well the gist of it is that Night Lords prefer to use swift application of overwhelming force to terrify and annihilate any opposition with minimal danger to themselves. Luckily this lends itself to a lot of different tabletop representations, and mostly depends on how chaotic he wants his warband to be. Main limitation is that NL are not devout to any of the Chaos gods, so there probably wouldn't be any NL berserkers, plague marines, etc. that said, NL have been specifically noted in their IA to ally with other Chaos factions without compunction (viewing their allies as expendable tools essentially) so cult squads wouldn't be unfluffy so long as they are painted as another legion and not actual NL themselves.

So really, it's one of the most open and all encompassing Legions, with even marks being okay as some characters in ADB's NL books were certainly affected by certain gods even if they didn't worship them. Also cultists seem kind of an odd mix with NL since in fluff the NL tend to attack targets for fun more than anything and their style of warfare leaves little need or room for human fodder. Even then though, they'd use it if they thought they needed to. Which is the thing, NL are very pragmatic, they have no sense of honor, and look down upon those that do. They don't worship the gods and so would join a cult but they would gladly ally with a cult if they thought it would advantage them. No principles, no rules.

 

...damn it, Rain. Bookmarked for future use.

[hummus]

Crimson slaughter dex would be good counts as because they all cause fear

[Deadman Wade]

Yes, CS make especially good Night Lords since they can't take VotLW, but have fear that has no effect on almost all armies.

[SyNidus]

Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

 

So how does this play with the whole "Raptors-galore" approach?

 

Also, what about taking mass land raiders? Would that be fluffy for NL? My friend wants an elite army with 3 land raiders but he hates iron warriors.

[Deadman Wade]

Night Lords were a Legion, they had entire armored companies and heavy support squads as well any heavy support stuff. Any amount of vehicles would be perfectly fine.

Night Lords aren't "raptor legion", though they had Night Raptors and assault squads during Heresy. Many HH squads had jumpy guys (destroyers, assault squads e.t.c.) - Blood Angels for example, so NL are not only about jump packs.

As for FEAR EVERWHERE, NL were famous for using it as a weapon against weaker foes, but in 40k they aren't the scariest guys around, so having or not having fear is the last thing I would think about when building my NL army.

[SyNidus]

So, technically, having 3 land raiders, a bunch of raptors waiting to pounce and rip the ever living day lights out from somebody, if it strikes enough fear, could be a fluffy NL list?

[Shuggnuggath]

What is going in the raiders? If its not terminators its eating into your heavy slots. Autocannon havocs, Obliterators and even vindicators are very handy.

[Hellios]

Drop pods.

[Clone]

Raptors and Warp Talons.

 

*waits for NL fans to hit me over the head

[RolandTHTG]

So, technically, having 3 land raiders, a bunch of raptors waiting to pounce and rip the ever living day lights out from somebody, if it strikes enough fear, could be a fluffy NL list?

Yep. May not be the most optimized, but plenty fluffy. What are you putting in the LR? Termis, chosen, or just regular guys? If you're putting Termis in, they can be dedicated transports, and don't have to use the HS slot. (Plus this allows Huron or Ariman to infiltrate them. Fun Times!)

[Forté]

Raptors and Warp Talons.

 

*waits for NL fans to hit me over the head

Consider that done. By a members of a Terror Squad that never used a jump pack but infiltrated and caused all sorts of mayhem.

 

A fluffy NL force in 40k is pretty difficult. In 30k it is bliss. With proper Legion rules, units, and characters (Curze and co.).

 

It's one of the main reasons I've not done NL for 40k but when funds are better I'll be jumping on FW.

[Plague Angel]

Really you can't go wrong with anything from the Fast Attack sections.

 

I wouldn't get too hung up on the Fear special rule; it's largely worthless. Most things in the game can ignore it, and the only units you can count on failing it are units you don't need it against anyways.

 

As for marks, while technically a Warhammer Fantasy supplement, Liber Chaotica Nurgle devotes a lot of space to a theological discussion on whether Nurgle is rightly considered the god of fear. It's worth a read, and makes the MoN justifiable on key units that need it.

[Trevak Dal]

Nurgle is the god of lazy fat bastards and should get nerfed to the point its as useless as Tzeentch.  I might be biased.

[Brother Heinrich]

You can really justify anything when it comes to Chaos, however I think Rain's comment hits the closest to a general overall "feel" that one would look for in a Night Lords force. An armored tank company type force would work fine as rapid strike tactics are one of their principle areas of expertise. In Horus Heresy: Massacre, it states that their observed strategic tendencies are:

 

• Punitive Actions

• Decimation

• Enforced Pacification

• Terror Assaults

• Psychological Warfare

 

So basically this means things that hit hard and fast. Raptors, Bikers, Mechanized Infantry, and Air Support. They aren't really going to be a foot-slogging force or one that participates in long-range arty duels. Marks or infantry type is irrelevant, there are tons of examples of varying degrees of corruption amongst the legion in the days since the Heresy. The key facet is mobility, their ability to rapidly close with and hit the enemy where they are at their weakest. 

 

To give you an example, I run A Landraider (Hopefully a Chaos Sicaran in the future if FW decides to be awesome in the next IA), 2 Chaos Marine Squads in Rhinos, 6 Bikers, and a Biker Lord. The only foot-slogging elements I have are a Contemptor Dreadnought and 4 Obliterators modeled as weapon teams. From a practical tabletop point of view, this is a great strategy as well. My friend who plays foot-slogging Word Bearers constantly laments the ability of my army to rapidly re-deploy to counter his advances. Gun line forces get pinned down and can be easily compartmentalized, and foot-slogging armies don't have the mobility necessary to react adequately to fast-moving threats. A mobile force has the flexibility to constantly support any element with at least two others.

[SyNidus]

Cool, thanks for the help gentlemen.

[Clone]

 

 

Raptors and Warp Talons.

 

*waits for NL fans to hit me over the head

Consider that done. By a members of a Terror Squad that never used a jump pack but infiltrated and caused all sorts of mayhem.

 

A fluffy NL force in 40k is pretty difficult. In 30k it is bliss. With proper Legion rules, units, and characters (Curze and co.).

 

It's one of the main reasons I've not done NL for 40k but when funds are better I'll be jumping on FW.

One of the reasons I went Black Legion was that I couldn't justify a fluffy Night Lord list with CSM. I would love to go 30k but then it's a choice of my wife or 30k (after she finds out how much it all costs)

[Spacefrisian]

Imagin if you could add Warptalons to the Blood Angels dex and just have a single warlord trait (no rolls needed) that forces your opponent to make a ld test for each unit or else be pinned (units in vehicles cannot disembark or shoot from there vehicle if they are inside one).

 

That would be a pretty fluffy Nightlords start. (hooray for wishfull thinking

[Brother Heinrich]

Imagin if you could add Warptalons to the Blood Angels dex and just have a single warlord trait (no rolls needed) that forces your opponent to make a ld test for each unit or else be pinned (units in vehicles cannot disembark or shoot from there vehicle if they are inside one).

 

That would be a pretty fluffy Nightlords start. (hooray for wishfull thinking

 

I will say that for as much as we Night Lords guys tout 'Terror Tactics', the only foes I see it working on would be Guardsmen and maybe Tau. Loyalist Space Marines just get angry when you try to scare them, Dark Eldar would laugh in our face, Eldar are cousins to the Dark Eldar so trying to be scarier than their own relatives is just a joke, Orks are probably too stupid to comprehend the terror tactics we use, and Tyranids and Necrons are self-explanatory. It would be nice to cause fear for the rare situation we can actually use it, but in all honesty it would be very situational. Forcing pinning checks on everything is waaaaaaay overselling what Night Lords can do in terms of terrorizing the foe.

[Plague Angel]

Imagin if you could add Warptalons to the Blood Angels dex

Vanguard Veterans.

 

I'm also always kind of iffy on when people talk about scoring Raptors as troops. Night Lords have been described as having more Raptors hunting with them than the other Traitor Legions, but in practice that just translated to removing the 0-1 restriction. An all-Raptor force hasn't really been the way the Night Lords have ever worked in any fluff I've seen. Especially factoring in that Raptors, like Obliterators, are actually their own special sort of cult. I imagine Raptors from different legions having more in common with each other than anyone from their legions; a Raptor that came from the Night Lords is only a Night Lord distantly, now.

 

And I'm totally with Heinrich here; 40k is set up in a way that Fear isn't a hugely beneficial rule. "Terror tactics" can inform unit selection or how you play your list, but I don't feel the lack of Fear is something a Night Lords player has to worry about or go out of their way to rectify.

[SyNidus]

So all that being said, would it be fair to say that NL tactics is really anything that you can bring to the table which scares the crap out of your opponent?

[Trevak Dal]

 

Imagin if you could add Warptalons to the Blood Angels dex and just have a single warlord trait (no rolls needed) that forces your opponent to make a ld test for each unit or else be pinned (units in vehicles cannot disembark or shoot from there vehicle if they are inside one).

 

That would be a pretty fluffy Nightlords start. (hooray for wishfull thinking

 

I will say that for as much as we Night Lords guys tout 'Terror Tactics', the only foes I see it working on would be Guardsmen and maybe Tau. Loyalist Space Marines just get angry when you try to scare them, Dark Eldar would laugh in our face, Eldar are cousins to the Dark Eldar so trying to be scarier than their own relatives is just a joke, Orks are probably too stupid to comprehend the terror tactics we use, and Tyranids and Necrons are self-explanatory. It would be nice to cause fear for the rare situation we can actually use it, but in all honesty it would be very situational. Forcing pinning checks on everything is waaaaaaay overselling what Night Lords can do in terms of terrorizing the foe.

 

Obviously the terror tactics are that your warband captured Tyranids and unleashed them on your foes!  Maybe use Daemons...

[Rain]

I will say that for as much as we Night Lords guys tout 'Terror Tactics', the only foes I see it working on would be Guardsmen and maybe Tau. Loyalist Space Marines just get angry when you try to scare them, Dark Eldar would laugh in our face, Eldar are cousins to the Dark Eldar so trying to be scarier than their own relatives is just a joke, Orks are probably too stupid to comprehend the terror tactics we use, and Tyranids and Necrons are self-explanatory. It would be nice to cause fear for the rare situation we can actually use it, but in all honesty it would be very situational. Forcing pinning checks on everything is waaaaaaay overselling what Night Lords can do in terms of terrorizing the foe.

 

Well yeah, but in fluff the Night Lords mostly just attack humans. Not even guardsmen really, but civilians, quite a bit like the Dark Eldar. They don't really like to fight anyone that can withstand them, and have been specifically stated to avoid battles at all costs, instead using trickery and deceit to strike at the unguarded and unwary. When faced against foes that don't feel fear, they use tactics like those described in the second FW HH book when a small NL fleet was attacked by an Ork rok. Basically hit and run, ambushing small pockets of the enemy with quick overwhelming force, and then rapidly escaping. Killing leaders to sow disorder, and destroying means of communication and resupply. Of course all of this is very difficult to represent on the tabletop, so that's where it's up to the player to do what they think fits.