Warpsmith - How do you use them in your own Chaos armies.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Hi everone

Taking on from Kythnos recent topic on Chaos Space Marines - Troop chose & how memeber use this unit.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289606-troop-csm-how-to-get-them-to-work/

 

I though it would be great if we get a few of these topics on the go, as end of the day everone play there armies diffrent regardless of the list & we learn a lot.  I know I gotten a lot of idea from the Chaos Space Marine topic.
The aim, no matter if a unit maybe view the best or not.  Is to get a general view - how memeber use these units in there armies or if not to allow them to try them out in a few games.

Only thing is

- I want this to help people out both new & older Chaos Marines player/hobbiest.  The Chaos Space Marine topic been brillaint & shown the diffrent use people have for this one unit alone, it been really postitive & great debate.

- Please do not compaire the chose to other codex eg: Useing codex X instead of Chaos Marines & general taken the topic off it purpose.

 

Be great to see other topics on units you want to get more info about & how you want them to fit into your own Chaos Marines army list, but unsure how you want to get the best out of those units that will suit your style of gaming.

 

As Kythnos said in his Chaos Marines topic

 

This is basically for those of us, who are still using their CSM troop units or want to field them more often. How do you run your units? What function do they fill in your army? How do you get them to perform against various opponents?That the start of this year, I taken

 

But with this topic, it to find out how memeber use Warpsmith in there army & what role do they have in your list.  Since the led up to the codex release 2012, I loss count of the amount of time people said I should take Warpsmith for my Iron Warriors due to fitting in with the background & how they'd fit into my style of converting & painting.

 

Warpsmith - Damocles to a tournament that one of my friend where running - 7 Games that 1650pts

 

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee412/JFmodel/Iron%20Warriors/DSC04027_zpsc30a9fe8.jpg

 

I taken the Warpsmith as my HQ chose for that event, partly because I just converted Damocles just before the Christmas holidays as part of the Call of Chaos challenge on this fourm.  Other part was just due to somthing a little diffrent & adding in the Vindicator as it was a unit I'd not use in a while.

 

For the Warpsmith I taken the standard Buring brand & he would join a squad of 8 Chaos Space Marines with there Rhino.  This just allowed him to be mobile & the Rhino set near by the Vindicator during the event incase of a weapon destroyed & just so I could fix it.
If anything I ended up lossing my Vindicator ever single game, but it did do it job before being destroyed. 

 

But the Warpsmith turn out to be really great & I never felt like he let me down in any of those seven games.  Weather it was useing both the Buring Brand & normal flamer he has for overwatch.  Or useing the Bs5 Melta gun to help the squad take on the higher toughness units like Dreadknights or Nurgle Bikers/Spawns or Ork Nobz units thanks to the soul blaze from the Buring brand follow by the Melta gun.  From what I rememeber he was only slay in one game.

Even in close combat I found the Warpsmith to be really great with both the Power Axe & Power Fist attack.  Holding back a Grey Knight Grand Master thanks to the Warpsmith 2+ armour save & slay the Grand master in return.  If anything, during the event I use the Warpsmith in close combat.
Also for a issiue or taken on a challange as I notice around here from the events I been to & local games that my local store & gaming club, people are taken power sword or claws over Power Fist or Power Axe these days.

 

I also give my Warpsmith Veteran of the Long war.  I like take this on units in my Iron Warriors force & also because we do see a lot of Space Marine type armies in events.  Just there will be those important turns where you need a shooting phase or close combat phase to go your way........ also because hatred/re-roll failed hits help me as I can't usely roll dice.

 

Then there Shatter Defence, -1 cover save to a area of terrain after deployment, which I always find really great if I can rememeber it.  But it does allow you to pick those important part of terrain hold that object in Emperor Will or to stop those Eldar Scouts being the base of your Chaos Space Marines force.

But since the event it self, I've been useing the Warpsmith in my army list in games over 1500pts over the past few months now, becoming a big part in my standard army list & always find that he still does well.  I'm current looking that possible running a Warpsmith with the Axe of Blind Fury in the future if I am not running my Terminators lord Narach, just to give me another HQ chose & again somthing a little diffrent..

 

While one of my friends took a Warpsmith in there Nurgle army for Caladion Uprising tournament eairly this year - Mark of Nurgle, mutation & sigil.  Useing him to hunt down tanks & to taken down other character in close combat from what I rememeber? when we where orignaly discussing Warpsmith chose.  He would also join the Warpsmith to units of chaos plague marines.

 

Let see how other memebers use there Warpsmith in there army list & games............

IP

[Dam13n]

For me, there are a number of ways I would consider fielding a Warpsmith:
(Stuff in brackets being optional)

1 - Chaos Space Marines:

a - Mark of Nurgle, Burning Brand of Skalathrax, (Gift of Mutation)

b - Mark of Khorne, Combat Familiar, VotLW, (Gift of Mutation), (Aura of Dark Glory)

2 - Crimson Slaughter:

a - Mark of Nurgle/Slaanesh, Slaughterer's Horns, Blade of the Relentless, (Gift of Mutation), (Prophet of the Voices)

3 - Black Legion:

a - Mark of Slaanesh, Spineshiver Blade, Combat Familiar, VotLW, (Gift of Mutation)

1a - added survivability of MoN, Burning Brand & Mechatendril Flamer gives great anti-horde potential.
1b - plenty of attacks with that Power Axe (2 basic + 2CCW +2A from mechatendrils + Rage = 7 S5 AP2 attacks on the charge) plus 2 S4 AP- attacks from the Familiar
2a - Nurgle for Survivability or Slaanesh to get Initiative 5, Slaughterer's Horns for Hammer of Wrath, Rage and Furious Charge, Blade of the Relentless (replacing bolt pistol) for the joys of having a blade that gets better the more you kill.
3a - MoS for Initiative 6 (Spineshiver gives an additional +1), lots of attacks at I6, S4, AP3 or less attacks at I1, S5, AP2 (swap the bolt pistol for the Spineshiver), again with 2 extra attacks at S4 AP-

In terms of generic "good stuff":
- BS5 is great for the Mechatendrils Meltagun
- Effectively 5 attacks basic with a Power Axe is nothing to be sniffed at
- 2+ armour (without losing ability to sweep from TA) is hard to come by in Chaos armies
- The flamer is great for Wall of Death, it's also good against hordes and for "thinning the herd" before an assault
- Shatter Defences is a good boost against defensive armies
- Master of Mechanisms is useful if you run vehicles (4+ to repair is useful (taking mechatendrils into account)). The Machine Curse is somewhat situational, but against any tank that spams shots (Leman Russ Punishers for example) forcing your opponent to have to consider whether or not to even fire it is a useful boost.

Now the bad stuff has been said before but just to recap:
1 - No Fearless

- Either place him in a Fearless (Cult) unit or one with the Icon of Vengeance. The Prophet of the Voices artefact from Crimson Slaughter also works for this.

2 - Only 2 wounds

- Not much can be done about this except hope for a "Bloated" result from a Gift/Boon. However T5 (MoN) or Feel no Pain (Mark of Slaanesh + Icon of Excess) might mitigate this somewhat.

3 - Cost

- Given what you get, it's not that bad really. Lets see, well a Crimson Slaughter Lord with the Daemonheart, a Power Axe and a Plasma Pistol (closest fit I can think of) will cost 125pts. Albeit with 1 extra wound, It Will Not Die!, and Fearless (though actually less attacks basic).

4 - Mobility

- No access to Bikes or Jump Packs is a pain, but a Rhino should serve to get him where he needs to go.

5 - Unlocks

- The Lord does unlock cult troops, which is a big plus.

I think that covers a fair amount...

[Dammeron]

My own "Fleshsmiths" ( a sub-cult of the Severed Angels who regard the reshaping of flesh as an art form) serve me very well, all being told; when I take them, I tend to theme my force around them, filling out the troops section with cultists (the vassals and indentured slaves of the Flesh Forges) and every other slot with as many daemon engines, Helbrutes and war machines as I can. This tends to make for a very extreme and niche force, but one that is incredibly fun to play.

 

Recently, I've been using the combination of both the Crimson Slaughter codex as a base for a primary detachment and the Black Legion codex as an allied force (it's the nature of the Severed Angels to field forces comprised of varying warbands and sub-cults derived from all manner of legions and chapters). This works out extremely well, especially since I tend to give my CS based Fleshsmith a combination of "Prophet of the Voices" and "The Slaughterer's Horns" and field him with a bodyguard of Possessed. The two units actually plug certain gaps in one another's capabilities rather well; the Warp (Flesh) smith providing the Possessed firepower, whilst the Possessed act as a deterrent to enemy assault. I've also been messing about with some of the recently released Helbrute formations, which work extremely well in conjunction with Warpsmith based forces.

 

The Black Legion allied Warpsmith tends to take The Eye of Night, as it's highly useful  in conjunction with his "Shatter Defences" capability, allowing you to undermine the enemy's defensive positions and armour very early in the game. I've found it particularly useful against the likes of Eldar, who tend to field quite a lot in the way of grav tanks et al. I haven't played against them yet, but I also imagine the applications against the "Astra Militarium" are quite various, too.

 

Thus far, I like my Fleshsmiths. They don't have as wide an application as my sorcerers (which I also tend to take in a kind of cabal), but then, they clearly aren't intended to; they function with regards to specifically tailored army lists.

 

Another combination I've been using recently is with the Daemon codex; utilising a Fleshsmith as the commander of my primary detachment, including as many war engines as possible from both codicies (Soul Grinders are quite literally a god-send).

 

They do definitely reward considered play; they are not Chaos Lords or Daemon Princes; they cannot be thrown at any and all situations, but I have found them to be extremely useful when played to their strengths and in an army list tailored to suit them.

[minigun762]

I'm still a fan of the simple combo of ADL + Quadgun + Warpsmith. 

It's one of the few 2+ save HQs you can get and if you need to save points, you can forgo any kind of inv save because you'll have a constant 4+ cover save. 

 

If you want a little more oomph, pairing him with some Obliterators wouldn't be a bad thing for either party. 

[incinerator950]

If I didn't need a Lord for the Plague Marines, I'd be using a Nurgle Warpsmith.

[Kythnos]

I'm glad to see that my topic served as some kind of inspiration :)

 

The Warpsmith is one of the entries in the codex where I'm still looking for ways to use his innate abilities more. He's great fighting with his axe and a good bearer of the Burning Brand (and using weapon emplacements and everything shooty), but I've rarely used his repair or weapon curse abilities and seldom seem to have a good terrain piece that I absolutely need to weaken. So please keep the ideas coming! I'm especially interested in your experiences with his repair capabilities. Do you feel like it's worth to forfeit his shooting to repair a vehicle in your experience?

[Sception]

Infrequently.  For me, despite his high Bs and many special abilities, he generally boils down to a reasonably affordable 2 wound melee hero with a 2+ save and a reasonably impressive number of AP2, Init1 attacks.  Which isn't bad, mind, but there's not all that much finesse in using him, just put him in a rhino with some CSMs, Chosen, or Plagues, or walk him forward with a plus size CSM unit.  Give him an inv save and the MoN for defense.  So long as you don't forget he's not fearless, there's not all that much to think about.  Since the terrain debuff doesn't apply to enemy fortifications, I haven't found it to be really game changing, and since I'm often relying on midfield terrain myself I even forgo using it half the time.  I've never had an opportunity to use the repair ability, and while his shooting is nice on the turn you assault, it doesn't have the range to mean much apart from that.

 

I've tried him with both the brand and the eye of night, and while he's not bad with either, both are much better on a model able to ride a bike.  I've put him on an icarus in the backfield with some havocs, which is nice and all, but then he spends the whole game as a +1 Bs buff to the gun emplacement, and he's just costs too much for what he does.  Hopefully IA3 adds a few more relic vehicles, to make him worth considering for secondary unlocks, where the bike lord also wins out currently.  I also hope he'll be an HQ option in and of himself for the updated renegade guard / LatD list, both thematically for a dark mech gimmick and mechanically, as his repair ability might matter more in a list with Malcador's and the like.

 

Again, he's not bad ime, but a lot of his abilities just don't seem to come into play as much as you'd think, and running him as a pure melee character doesn't quite get the 'feel' of him, imo.

[the jeske]

too slow to do melee or be a tank , and not shoty enough to range HQ. If he could take a bike , he would be a nice fluff options. The good thing about him , is that because he is the clone of a techmarine he doesn't pay for the special abilities he has like a dark apostol.

[Foolio_Displasius]

I'm still a fan of the simple combo of ADL + Quadgun + Warpsmith.

 

This is one where "I want to believe", but it's so fething expensive that I've yet to give it a try.  It seems like something you'd have to build your whole army around, rather than just dropping it in to fill a gap. 

[minigun762]

 

 

I'm still a fan of the simple combo of ADL + Quadgun + Warpsmith.

This is one where "I want to believe", but it's so fething expensive that I've yet to give it a try. It seems like something you'd have to build your whole army around, rather than just dropping it in to fill a gap.

I think of it as the opposite.

How likely is it you're already running Havocs or Obliterators or some other camping long range squad?

This means you probably have the ADL already, but now you can protect your HQ to deny a VP, strongly threatened flyers and even reduce cover saves.

[King Jackal]

I like taking him in an allied detachment when I pull out soulgrinders and decimators

[Kilofix]

I hide mine behind an ADL Quad and next to my Chaos Contemptor and Forgefiend when I field the latter.

 

Edit - The above forms a gun line. My Warp is usually bare bones. If I need to make him tougher I'll get a squad of Cultists for abalative.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

 I'm especially interested in your experiences with his repair capabilities. Do you feel like it's worth to forfeit his shooting to repair a vehicle in your experience?

 

For me it just depended.  When I was against Space Marines in round 2 in a kill point mission, my Vindicator was on a single hull point & my Warpsmith with his unit of Chaos Marines where out of range for there weapons after there Rhino transport was destroyed.  I would spend that turn repair it as there was a unit of Biker near by, I belive they ended up fail & follow turn allowed my Warpsmith & Chaos unit to fire, while the Vindicator went to deal with another unit of Bikers.

 

This has happen in a few more games ether during this event or in friendly games.  But just come down to what happen during the game. 

 

I've never really use the curse ability against Vechicle yet.

[Xenith]

I've never really use the curse ability against Vechicle yet.

As I believe Pask in a Punisher will becoming more common, Cursing will get it's chance! Also the heavy 10 (non twin linked?) Taurox gatling gun thing.

[RolandTHTG]

I've never really use the curse ability against Vechicle yet.

As I believe Pask in a Punisher will becoming more common, Cursing will get it's chance! Also the heavy 10 (non twin linked?) Taurox gatling gun thing.

Except if they use pask as a warlord, he gets preferred enemy, so he rerolls those ones.

For me, unfortunately, warpsmiths are too far down the list of my HQs to see the battlefield. Marked lords, Sorcerors, Cypher and Huron are all above him in my list building. He looks fun, but just not in the theme I build my lists around.

[crucial]

Naked on the quad gun on top of a bastion with las-havoks inside is my idea. Maybe stick the autocannon havoks on top with him for wounds n more S7 shots.

 

Expensive but nigh indestructible, controls a flank by itself and protects the slay the warlord VP

 

Also the only way of making lascannon armed havoks work imo. The bastion. Constant S9 shots from a indestructable unit for the whole game...

[Xenith]

Except if they use pask as a warlord, he gets preferred enemy, so he rerolls those ones.

Ahh, is that one of his orders? Damn.

[RolandTHTG]

Except if they use pask as a warlord, he gets preferred enemy, so he rerolls those ones.

Ahh, is that one of his orders? Damn.

Not an order, His warlord trait is "Pick a codex. You get Preferred enemy vs that codex for the game". He then has the normal Tank Commander orders for his squadron.

[Joep]

Hey guys,

 

New to the forum... Also never played with chaos before but I'm building up my army!

 

My first intentions were to make up to 1000 pts to fight my also-starting-again loyalist buddy, but with more mates joining in and all those cool models to buy I can super buff my all Khorne (I like a single mark for the entiry army, not too smart I know.. Guess I'm fluffy) to something over 2000 pts.

In this case I would use my Warpsmith as following:

 

Warpsmith:

mark of khorne

veterans of the long war

axe of blind fury

Dimensional key

aura of dark glory

ichor blood

fleshmetal

bolt pistol

mechatendrils

frag grenades

krak grenades

 

This while he is in a Land Raider accompanied by a unit of 6 Chosen (with all the weapons they come with as in the Dark Vengeance kit), or if my friends are okay with it in a Land Raider Crusader (yeah the Black Templars modified it but hey maybe my dudes are rogue and they took one with them... Makes just as much sense like why Chaos has regular Land Raiders right?)

 

So, Crusader or not, when he gets into combat his Dimensional Key activates when he kills, so my Terminator Lord + Terminators can Deep Strike without scattering, preferably close to some more stuff to crush with his Black Mace. Adding the Axe of Blind Fury and The Black Mace of both bosses they are good for, in the utmost of succes, nearly 30 attacks.

 

I know this is super duper buffed and stuff, but I only came up with this by getting to as much points as I could with the models I have. In this way I can still play higher pts games without having to buy more stuff. Without any 'invisible' upgrades I'm getting to 1300 pts so that might give an image.

 

Assuming my Land Raider and Warpsmith don't get blasted away immediately: what do you guys think about it?

 

**for furture comments and stuff: though my last battle has been years ago I'm still quite familiar with the game, and I have read the latest Rulebook and Codexes at least 2 times.

[Slaanbull]

That warpsmith is super expensive yea, remember that he isn't fearless. Not that I expect most things to win the combat with a charge from his squad, but still, be careful.
You might also run into the problem of having to deepstrike the terminators before the dimensional key goes off. If you go second you might get super, super lucky and charge in the second player turn, but most of the time you'll get it activated after turn 2 reserves, maybe even turn 3 if you're unlucky.
I would ditch ichor blood(he only has two wounds, so that is only two Strength 3 AP4 hits extra) and dimensional key, and get Gift of Mutation(for fun!). You seem intent on giving him the Axe, so I wont change that. :)

I also don't think that your Land Raider Crusader will get blasted off the table before I can deliver the payload, not in a  1000-1300pts game unless your friend really hates it. :) What are the differences from the normal Chaos Land Raider and the Crusader by the way?

[Iron Skull Mask]

I'm with Minigun. Warpsmith imho either belongs with a Quad or Laser into a fortification, or into a Landraider with or without another unit. Best thing is probably to go the first route with a cultist blob with autoguns and a Predator nearby which he can usually save from being blown up for at least 1 turn (which can be a lot). I did not have good results with putting him into an Oblit unit. Both sides gain almost nothing in my experience because weapons that deal with one also easily deal with the other, mark or no mark. Also, if you really need better leadership with Obliterators better spend the points for veterans.

 

One thing you really have to keep in mind is the Warpsmith's ability to weaken a cover save. This can be extremely good when the opp brings no ADL, except for tables with five ruins in every deployment zone. And even if that is the case, to weaken a certain piece of terrain close to an objective can play a big role in maelstrom games. I see a lot of people simply forgetting about the ability.

[the jeske]

 

What are the differences from the normal Chaos Land Raider and the Crusader by the way?

aside of PotMS? MM on top, more then 10 dudes go inside , AC+Bolters have synergy .

[incinerator950]

I'm with Minigun. Warpsmith imho either belongs with a Quad or Laser into a fortification, or into a Landraider with or without another unit. Best thing is probably to go the first route with a cultist blob with autoguns and a Predator nearby which he can usually save from being blown up for at least 1 turn (which can be a lot). I did not have good results with putting him into an Oblit unit. Both sides gain almost nothing in my experience because weapons that deal with one also easily deal with the other, mark or no mark. Also, if you really need better leadership with Obliterators better spend the points for veterans.

 

One thing you really have to keep in mind is the Warpsmith's ability to weaken a cover save. This can be extremely good when the opp brings no ADL, except for tables with five ruins in every deployment zone. And even if that is the case, to weaken a certain piece of terrain close to an objective can play a big role in maelstrom games. I see a lot of people simply forgetting about the ability.

It's overlooked in the same category that strong, easy use units are mandatory just to keep an edge over Support units.

[GreyCrow]

Hey guys ! It's pretty good to read about the Warpsmith, I'm really considering one to replace my cheap Lord :) Because base the Warpsmith is a decent in close combat with 4 attacks and a 2+ armor, he has got quite a few tricks up his mechatendrils and the buff/debuff special rules he gets are pretty awesome !

 

Has everyone ever used him to curse a vehicle ? Like Dam13n said it's super situational, but imagine it against Wave Serpents and such. I like how he can sabotage the enemy army :D

 

Another big draw for me is the mechatendrils themselves, pretty fitting for an Alpha Legion "Hydra" look ^^

[Sception]

Before the Black Legion supplement (which I run for thematic rather than mechanical reasons), I ran mine with MoN, the 5++, and the brand (replacing his pistol), riding a rhino with a CSM squad carrying a melta or flamer, and combi weapon of one of those types on the champ. Goal was to move onto a defensible mid-table objective and flame things, using multiple meltagun and flamer shots to discourage opposing units from approaching. Was... ok.

 

Under the Black Legion book, I've run:

Back line with havocs manning an icarus las next to a ranged support vehicle - trilas pred, dakkafiend, or the like. Keep the vehicle shooting, lend his leadership to the havocs, and his ballistic skill to the skyfire/interceptor las. Usually bare bones, but sometimes with the eye - that one shot anti-vehicle weapon. Has been... meh.

 

I want to run:

5++, maybe a mark, in a dread claw with a unit of CSMs or chosen equipped for close combat, carrying some combination of additional melta and flamer weaponry. Haven't run this yet, and I worry about the cost being prohibitive, but it's something I'd like to try when I eventually get back into the game, assuming the dreadclaw and the black legion supplement are still things when that happens.