Warpsmith - How do you use them in your own Chaos armies.

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Ive got one ive used a few times. Id love to run him more but he competes for a slot with my lord and a sorceror :(

[GreyCrow]

Ive got one ive used a few times. Id love to run him more but he competes for a slot with my lord and a sorceror

Yeah, I can understand how it's complicated to include him in lists where you already have beasty Sorcerors and Lords :/

I'll be using mine as a dual HQ with a Dark Apostle, probably escorted by a squad of Chosen with a couple Power Axes in a Land Raider, or have him join squads of Chaos Marines and providing support to the Helbrute, hehe. Why two meager HQs ? Because both are Alpharius :p

[Scribe]

I've only used mine a few times, but I put him in a larger CSM squad with MoK, and he was beautiful.

[Prot]

Honestly when the last codex came out, and I wanted a super cheap HQ, I sat him behind an Aegis with a tank of some description (or fiend) and plopped him down with a cheap Cultist squad to keep them around with ObSec. He would fire the Quad gun if needed, repair a tank, and hold the Cultists together for objectives behind the Aegis. 

 

It was cheap, for lists where I didn't want a heavy HQ.

[the jeske]

why not buy a lvl sorc or a naked lord then?

[Kaldoth]

why not buy a lvl sorc or a naked lord then?

BS5, can fire two weapons, comes with three ranged weapons options, 2+ armor save, can repair vehicles.  For an army with an ADL and some sort of ranged support vehicle (Like Iron Warriors :rolleyes:) he's actually quite handy.  I run him with the Brand in a ten man CSM squad w/flamers, plopped behind an ADL next to a Sicaran.  That's 4 pie plates if they get charged, a BS5 quad gun, and I can keep my shooty tank up and running.

[GreyCrow]

why not buy a lvl sorc or a naked lord then?

 

Sorcerers and Lords get better the more points you throw at them (with a limit of course !), while with minimal upgrades, Apostles and Warpsmiths bring a lot on the table. Maybe not pure combat prowess (but that's not a worry in lists with a decent number of melee units), but buffs and debuffs to the army.

Besides, like Kaldoth said, BS5, 2+, able to fire a melta and a plasma and 4 attacks base is nothing to scoff at :p

 

Although I don't think the only use is to keep him back, I believe he can be used more aggressively with his two short ranged weapons.

[Prot]

why not buy a lvl sorc or a naked lord then?

why not buy a lvl sorc or a naked lord then?

BS5, can fire two weapons, comes with three ranged weapons options, 2+ armor save, can repair vehicles. For an army with an ADL and some sort of ranged support vehicle (Like Iron Warriors ) he's actually quite handy. I run him with the Brand in a ten man CSM squad w/flamers, plopped behind an ADL next to a Sicaran. That's 4 pie plates if they get charged, a BS5 quad gun, and I can keep my shooty tank up and running.

^ Pretty much this.

Repair was far more useful than I though it would be too. Plus for his points, he was always surprisingly good at holding his own if we was rushed. Heck even the overwatch (if you had another flamer in the cultsts) could add up.

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

The one time my smith got into combst vs fire warriors it took him 3 rounds to wipe them out lol

[the jeske]

why not buy a lvl sorc or a naked lord then?

BS5, can fire two weapons, comes with three ranged weapons options, 2+ armor save, can repair vehicles. For an army with an ADL and some sort of ranged support vehicle (Like Iron Warriors ) he's actually quite handy. I run him with the Brand in a ten man CSM squad w/flamers, plopped behind an ADL next to a Sicaran. That's 4 pie plates if they get charged, a BS5 quad gun, and I can keep my shooty tank up and running.

but all the chaos vehicles will out pace it and if you take siccarians instead of buying an HQ it is better to buy an extra one, then try to repair one. Also investing twice the cost of the tanks, in to a anti charge unit in an edition where melee does not happen offten[and if it does the flamers offten will just be tanked or the charge is something like a knight] seems stupid.

Sorcerers and Lords get better the more points you throw at them (with a limit of course !), while with minimal upgrades, Apostles and Warpsmiths bring a lot on the table.

What does an apostol bring to the table? They both take up an HQ slot and clock more points then a sorc or lord. A lord does everything the apostol does for less points for camper units. The smith can repair stuff, but it is better to not repair but buy extra tanks of the same sort[which is more or less limited to siccarians and wyverns, as both rhinos and mauler fiends out pace the smith], and that is only if opponents accept FW. Otherwise chaos doesn't realy have usable backfield tanks[or vehicles].

In fact with FW it would be better to invest the smith+unit points in to support weapon batteries[higher T better weapons, better synergy with siccarian] .

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

The smith is also a cheap way of allowing multiple relic vehicles

[GreyCrow]

What does an apostol bring to the table? They both take up an HQ slot and clock more points then a sorc or lord. A lord does everything the apostol does for less points for camper units. The smith can repair stuff, but it is better to not repair but buy extra tanks of the same sort[which is more or less limited to siccarians and wyverns, as both rhinos and mauler fiends out pace the smith], and that is only if opponents accept FW. Otherwise chaos doesn't realy have usable backfield tanks[or vehicles].

In fact with FW it would be better to invest the smith+unit points in to support weapon batteries[higher T better weapons, better synergy with siccarian] .

A blob of Zealot Cultists being an unbreakable expendable unit ? I've seen Fearless Guardsmen blobs tarpit elite choices for an entire game thanks to priests. And even on 10 Cultists with 3 attacks on the Charge, rerolls to hit is an immense bonus That's 220ish points of cheap stuff that the opponent will HAVE to deal with, because once they come crashing down their lines, they will do damage.

Obviously, I'm not using the Cultists as camper units, but as a bullet magnet. The Alpha Legion thanks them for their heroic service. For camper units, I'd rather take Obliterators because they are fearless and actually can do something at range

EDIT : I see the Lords' cheap points as a base to truly customize it the way you want to be a close combat murder machine due to all the wargear, rewards, marks, steeds, etc available. I really fail the point to take it barebones for the Fearless rule honestly. If joined to a Marines squad of 15 Marines, that's a 4.33 points tax per model. For 35 Cultists, it's a 2 points tax which is better. But a barebones Apostle will make it a 3 points tax per model, giving rerolls to hit in the first round of any combat, which is damn cheap for the extra point if you ask me :)

[Kaldoth]

why not buy a lvl sorc or a naked lord then?

BS5, can fire two weapons, comes with three ranged weapons options, 2+ armor save, can repair vehicles. For an army with an ADL and some sort of ranged support vehicle (Like Iron Warriors ) he's actually quite handy. I run him with the Brand in a ten man CSM squad w/flamers, plopped behind an ADL next to a Sicaran. That's 4 pie plates if they get charged, a BS5 quad gun, and I can keep my shooty tank up and running.

but all the chaos vehicles will out pace it and if you take siccarians instead of buying an HQ it is better to buy an extra one, then try to repair one. Also investing twice the cost of the tanks, in to a anti charge unit in an edition where melee does not happen offten[and if it does the flamers offten will just be tanked or the charge is something like a knight] seems stupid.

Sorcerers and Lords get better the more points you throw at them (with a limit of course !), while with minimal upgrades, Apostles and Warpsmiths bring a lot on the table.

What does an apostol bring to the table? They both take up an HQ slot and clock more points then a sorc or lord. A lord does everything the apostol does for less points for camper units. The smith can repair stuff, but it is better to not repair but buy extra tanks of the same sort[which is more or less limited to siccarians and wyverns, as both rhinos and mauler fiends out pace the smith], and that is only if opponents accept FW. Otherwise chaos doesn't realy have usable backfield tanks[or vehicles].

In fact with FW it would be better to invest the smith+unit points in to support weapon batteries[higher T better weapons, better synergy with siccarian] .

Not necessarily. A Sicaran, while packing quite a bit of punch, is still very specialized towards light armor, fliers, and other fast movers with jink saves. It has very little to no effect against heavier armor unless you take the lascannon sponsons, in which case you're only getting two shots if you're positioned properly; and we all know how well lascannons actually do. The unfortunate thing about the Chaos dex compared to others is that our section choices are very much tunneled to that specific purpose. It's hard to get anti tank in a fast attack selection, just like its hard to get a fast moving vehicle in a heavy support selection. Elites is pretty much the only section we have where we can take units that we can kit out to fill a role (termies and chosen), but both of those come with a hefty price tag. Taking two heavy support slots that are keyed towards taking out fast movers can seriously gimp you on your anti tank capabilities. Plus, you really don't need to buy two Sicarans to begin with. One does the job just fine. That's why I run one Sicaran that sits behind an ADL for a nice cover save, plus two maulerfiends that get screened by spawn. Why waste points on a second Sicaran, when with my smith, it doesn't go down in the first place? That's 150 points I have to spend elsewhere. It seems to me (and don't take this the wrong way, not trying to insult you :)) that you're used to playing your army a certain way, so taking a smith doesn't make sense to your strategy. Well, for me, the smith works wonders. Its up to the player to make the units work. In this case, a smith is exactly what I need.

[Oirghialla]

I'd like to make a small iron warriors contingent with a warpsmith. Let me know what you think and if it could be improved!

 

Take 7-8 space marines (including champion) with meltagun and close combat + boltgun loadout, and warpsmith with combi-melta and mark of Khrone (not generically fluffy I know, but could be a break-away chapter) and put them together in a transport. Move quickly to get close to the enemy, and use the warpsmith to repair the vehicle on the way. When close, let loose a barrage of melta shots against vehicles and assault infantry. The idea is that it is a versatile close combat squad. I would chose a Rhino as the vehicle. It's not ideal because of how squishy it is, but I don't know of any better vehicles for this role.

 

Also, the dirge caster looks good to support assaults by this unit. Is it worth it? The 6" range doesn't seem great...

[the jeske]

A overwatch generaly doesn't do much unless your charging a unit with D flamers.So the Dirge Caster is not needed.

B you can't charge out of the rhino, so the "and assault infantry" part won't work

C neither the smith nor the csm are fearless/ATKNF this means there is a change they will leg it in melee.

D a rhino is not worth reparing

E more offten then not a rhino dies, and you can't repair blown up vehicles.

[Oirghialla]

Ah, okay. So you'd say that the warpsmith's extra attacks in melee go to waste. Two BS 5 melta shots still seem pretty good though if I can get him close. Any ideas? I like the idea of this unit and it would be fun to paint.

[the jeske]

a 100pts melta guns is super bad. Imagine you take the same rhino with the same csm, only with 10csm. your losing a bs5 meltagun. But the points gain is huge. And if you realy realy realy want the unit to go anti tank you can buy a combi melta for the asp champion on top of the second meltagun. You will save 50+pts [csm+melta+combi melta for the csm] and that is huge gain for chaos, which is always points starved.

[Bearingtheword]

Unless that Warpsmith is your HQ choice....it's points you'd have to spend anyhow because you have to have an HQ.....

I know, Jeske, that your saying to take a cheap naked Lord or Sorc, but if he's made up his mind to take the warpsmith then it's not going to be points saved...

Basically it's going to come down to your local meta, how competitive it is/you want to be and, ultimately, the type of army you want to field....Pick the units you like, learn their strengths and weaknesses, and then build around those to find the synergy between the units you have chose and have fun with it..... 

Weigh the pros and cons you have heard here, playtest by proxying and learn for yourself how they perform....

Personally, I think I may just give a warpsmith a go. It will break up the monotony for me a bit, and change the theme of my force a bit every so often...

~BtW

 

[Shuggnuggath]

In larger games I have run a Warpsmith as a second HQ. 

 

I gave him a melta bomb + VotLW and put him with a squad of 9 CSM with in a  ObSec Dreadclaw Pod. The marines get VotLW, Melta bomb, Meltagun and extra CCWs.

 

I drop the pod in a open area to avoid mishap and then flat-out move 18', relatively close to my intended target, hopefully behind something that blocks line of sight.

Turn 2 the pod moves up and they disembark, shoot something up and can also charge in if they need to (Assault vehicle). 

 

The handy thing is that by that stage of the game many armies Beatstik HQ is already halfway up the table trying to chase down my Chaos Lord  and his squad, so the Warpsmith and his retinue of marines can have a good time in the opponents backfield, great for trashing my regular opponents WW Scorpius. I use the Dreadclaw to fly round picking up Maelstrom points (I pretty much only play Maelstrom nowadays). Originally I only took the Warpsmith to allow a second relic vehicle and to prevent the Dreadclaw eating my dudes but have found him a pretty handy addition. 

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Personally if you want to field a warpsmith i say do it. Im going to be running the black legion supplement alot more so i may try giving mine the eye of night

[the jeske]

But everyone does agree that taking the smith to get a bs5 meltagun for a 9 man csm squad is stupid.

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Idk ive done it before its worked out ok for me

[GreyCrow]

But everyone does agree that taking the smith to get a bs5 meltagun for a 9 man csm squad is stupid.

 

I definitely agree with you there if it's taken *just* for the BS5 meltagun. When trying to take advantage of everything else he brings, then it becomes a much sounder decision :)

 

Mine arrives on Thursday, I can't wait to field it ! :D

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

 

 

But everyone does agree that taking the smith to get a bs5 meltagun for a 9 man csm squad is stupid.

I definitely agree with you there if it's taken *just* for the BS5 meltagun. When trying to take advantage of everything else he brings, then it becomes a much sounder decision :)

 

Mine arrives on Thursday, I can't wait to field it ! :D

Hes a characterful hq and hes not too shabby tbh if yours is anything like mine keep him out of combat with fire warriors or you maybe stuck there for a few rounds

[Oirghialla]

That's why I was curious if he would work well in squad with close combat weapons because of his extra attacks and flamer, so I could take advantage of all of his benefits. I could always use the model as a counts as since that sounds tactically difficult.