Gentlemanloser Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 A while ago I got a bit fixated with spamming Storm Bolters with Divination. And messed around with various permutations to try to squeeze the most out of the game; http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287661-grey-knights-doing-what-we-do-best/ http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287668-1850-gk-using-sw-primary-and-ci/ I kinda like that last list. But, with the new IG/AM, can we take this any further? Can we replace the Rune Priests with Primaris Psykers to give C:I Warriors Divination? We can't use them to boost GK units, as they are AoC. But they are BB with the Inquisition. Some mix of Inquisitors from C:GK *and* C:I to attach to GK units, and C:IG/AM Psykers to attach to C:I Warriors. What unit would you stick Coteaz with? How would you put this all together to maximise shots? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Codex: Grey Knights HQ: Coteaz (100) HQ: OMI, PML1 (55) Troop: Acolytes x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70) Troop: Acolytes x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70) Troop: Acolytes x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70) Troop: Acolytes x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70) Codex: Astra Militarum HQ: TBA HQ: Ministorum Priests (25) HQ: Ministorum Priests (25) HQ: Ministorum Priests (25) HQ: Primaris Psyker (50) HQ: Primaris Psyker (50) HQ: Primaris Psyker (50) Troop: TBA Codex: Inquisition HQ: OMI, PML1 (55) HQ: OMI, PML1 (55) Elites: DCA x10 (150) Elites: DCA x10 (150) Elites: DCA x10 (150) Total: 1220 The C:I psykers can join the C:GK warbands, while the C:AM psykers can join the C:I warbands, along with the priests too. That's why I specifically chose 4 warbands from C:GK as they have a potential of 4 ICs that can join them. The downside is the DCA are not scoring as Coteaz is from C:GK, but with a psyker giving them all rerolls to failed hits and a priest giving them rerolls to failed wounds (or armour and inv saves if needed) then they should be assaulting anything and everything. It's not a complete list as its only 1220 points and there's a need for an actual HQ and Troop choice from C:AM before any additions or upgrades are taken, but I think it's a good place to start. I chose to go for DCA to illustrate the potential of using priests and psykers in the same list. Drop the Priests and go for more storm bolter if needed. Also get a squad of joker-oreos with Coteaz for IBEY hilarity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3658905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 Awesome! Just the kinda thinking I'm after. :D For the Priests and Psykers, can you take up to 5 of each even as an Ally? I know they don't take a FoC slot at all. But that's awesome. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3658974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Awesome! Just the kinda thinking I'm after. For the Priests and Psykers, can you take up to 5 of each even as an Ally? I know they don't take a FoC slot at all. But that's awesome. Sadly they're limited to 3 each in C:AM, but "Each Astra Militarum detachment may include 0-3 Primaris Psykers." allows them to be taken even as allies I presume. edit: bad mistake Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3658977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 Adepta Sororitas has Psykers. Totally missed that. Must go look! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3658988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I meant it the other way around Its a choice between 3 psykers or 2 priests. There are also a squad of psykers in elites (so only 1 with C:AM as allies), for 60 points you get the worst profile I've ever seen (Ld:8), but 5 psykers with the brotherhood of pyskers rule and choice of 4 disciplines prescience.Codex: Grey KnightsHQ: Coteaz (100)HQ: OMI, PML1, Servo Skulls x3 (64)Troop: Acolytes x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70)Troop: Acolytes x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70)Troop: Acolytes x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70)Troop: Jokaero x5, Plasma Cannon Servitor x3 (235)Chimera (55)Codex: Astra MilitarumHQ: Lord Commisar (65)HQ: Ministorum Priest (25)HQ: Ministorum Priest (25)HQ: Ministorum Priest (25)HQ: Primaris Psyker, PML2 (75)HQ: Primaris Psyker, PML2 (75)HQ: Primaris Psyker, PML2 (75)Troop: Veterans (60)Codex: InquisitionHQ: OMI, PML1 (55)HQ: OMI, PML1 (55)Elites: DCA x10 (150)Elites: DCA x10 (150)Elites: DCA x10 (150) Total 1649 So the C:I psykers can join the C:GK warbands, while the C:AM psykers can join the C:I warbands, along with the priests too. The Primaris Psykers are now Psyker Mastery Level 2 as they're going to be assaulting along with the DCA and so will get close enough to use Smite (prescience first, for the rerolls) which is the primaris power in biomancy, although rolling is always an option. With 2 spots available and enough points for crusaders in the warbands, they may be invaluable if the priests sacrifice their rerolls to wound for rerolling 3++ saves in combat. I changed one storm bolter warband for a jokaero unit with 3 PC servitors that will go inside a chimera for extra protection with Coteaz. I also picked the cheapest C:AM units as I know nothing about them, but I feel it's lacking something, maybe a Dreadknight Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3659039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 PML2 on the AM Psykers? Is the second roll worth it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3659059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 PML2 on the AM Psykers? Is the second roll worth it? Considering they're only about a powerfist more than an Inquisitor but have Mastery 2, that's pretty huge man. It's not like either character is likely to kill much, but moar powers = more buffs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3659322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 I'm now mulling over two different ways of building this. 1; Primary SW, Inquisitorial and Allied IG. This gives cheapest Imperial Terminators, and more divination that you can shake a stick at. 2; Primary GK, Inquisitorial and Allied IG. Paladin over WGT, but loses the ability to add IG Priests to the TDA for reroll shenanigans. I'm torn really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3660599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 If those paladins are packing psycannons and psybolt ammo (and why wouldnt they) then you should probably avoid close combat, making the priests redundant while still allowing OMI from C:I or C:GK to join them and then the psykers from C:AM can join the C:I warbands. The psykers can still allow rerolls to hit in close combat too and the pally psycannons will be pumping out 8 shots per turn with rerolls to hit, while relentless means you can assault with rerolls to hit on force weapon if the situation calls for it. Basically in the lists above, exchange Coteaz for Draigo and warbands for pallies (three squads max). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3660726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 Basically. I'm torn between the two. Needs more mulling over. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3660876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 2; Primary GK, Inquisitorial and Allied IG. Purifiers over WGT, but loses the ability to add IG Priests to the TDA for reroll shenanigans. fixed The War Priests only work in melee, which is annoying. Wolf Guard die just as easily as Paladins to Riptides, so I dunno why you'd go with either. War Priests work better being abused in a unit that already has high saves (ie Stormhammers, or an IG blob with Azrael etc). You jam them into enemy units then lol as they refuse to die. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3661240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 With all this in mind, how about Space Marines (Mantis Warriors) as Primary? Primary; Space Marines HQ: Libby HQ: Libby Elite: Terminator, TH&SS x5 Troop: Scout x5 Troop: Scout x5 Heavy: Centurion, Grav Cannons x3 Inquisitorial; HQ: Coteaz HQ: Inquisitor, PML1, Tome, Servo Skulls Elite: Warrior, Strom Bolter x10-12 Elite: Warrior, Strom Bolter x10-12 Elite: Warrior, Strom Bolter x10-12 Allied; IG/AM HQ: Lord Commisar HQ: Priest HQ: Primaris Psyker HQ: Primaris Psyker HQ: Primaris Psyker Troop: Veteren For a basis? Coteaz goes with Dev Cents. Priest goes with TH/SS Terminators. Inq with Scout goes to either of these two. Three Primaris Psykers go with the three Warrior squads. That leaves two Divination Libbies to go wherever. And round I go! Edit: And I'm sure I can fit some Bullgryns in as well... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3661484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Except SM Libbies can't take Divination Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3662110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 Mantis Warriors can. It's a FW Chapter Trait. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/F/FWchaptertactics.pdf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3662172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 I've worked out a GK Primary version; GK; HQ: Librarian (150) HQ: Librarian (150) Troop: Strike x10, Psycannon x2 (220) Troop: Strike x10, Psycannon x2 (220) Troop: Strike x10, Psycannon x2 (220) Troop: Strike x10, Psycannon x2 (220) Inq; HQ: Coteaz (100) HQ: Inquisitor, PML1, Servo Skull x3 (64) Elite: Warrior x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70) Elite: Warrior x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70) Elite: Servitor x3, Plasma Cannon x3 (60) IG/AM HQ: Lord Commisar (65) HQ: Primaris Psyker (50) HQ: Primaris Psyker (50) HQ: Primaris Psyker (50) Troop: Veteren (60) Total: 1,819 Still a little room to play with. Libbies go with the two henchmen squads, for Rerolls and ATSKNF. Coteaz with Plasma Cannon Servitors. Primaris Psykers and Inquisitor with the Strikes. Commisar with the Vets. What do you think? How does this compare with the original Space Wolf primary version? I'm surprised there's actually nearly as many minis in the Space Wolf version as this one. Is there any way to squeeze more out of IG/AM as allies? Could we get use out of Priests? In Warbands with Crusaders? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3662634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Primaris Psykers and Inquisitor with the Strikes. AM are not Battle Brothers, so you can't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3662755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Ah... Grud. /flips table Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3662758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 >that feel when no one except Inquisition-brainwashed pet Marines and Inquisitors wanna be your friend It's hard being grey Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3663460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Primaris Psykers and Inquisitor with the Strikes. AM are not Battle Brothers, so you can't. That's why I needed to play musical detachments with my psykers. The C:I are BB with all of the imperium, so the AM/IG psykers can join the C:I warbands while the C:I psykers can join the C:GK strikes. GK; HQ: Librarian (150) HQ: OMI, PML1 (55) Troop: Strike x10, Psycannon x2 (220) Troop: Strike x10, Psycannon x2 (220) Troop: Strike x10, Psycannon x2 (220) Elite: Servitor x3, Plasma Cannon x3 (60) Inq; HQ: Coteaz (100) HQ: Inquisitor, PML1, Servo Skull x3 (64) Elite: Warrior x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70) Elite: Warrior x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70) Elite: Warrior x10, Storm Bolter x10 (70) IG/AM HQ: Lord Commisar (65) HQ: Primaris Psyker (50) HQ: Primaris Psyker (50) HQ: Primaris Psyker (50) Troop: Veteren (60) Total: 1574 Exchanging a strike quad from C:GK for a warband in C:I you can have the above, with the mandatory inquisitor in GK to allow the warband. Coteaz goes with the plasma cannons, Librarian and inquisitors go with the strikes, leaving the primaris psykers to go with the warbands. This has the drawback of no warband having ATSNKF, and so should probably exchange the libby for another OMI to reduce points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3664024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 Can't like your post enough. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289864-doing-what-we-do-best-part-2/#findComment-3664098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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