Shooting with a defiler

[FeelNoShane]

New to the gaming aspect and in looking for rules for my favorite model (i have 4) the Defiler. I equip them with the Battle Cannon, Reaper Autocannon, and Havoc Launcher. To the rule question.....

 

On pg. 71 under shooting/ordnance section of the DV BRB it states "a vehicle that fires an ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn. "

 

Then..

 

On pg 84 under Walkers- it states " a walker that moved can still fire all of its weapons in the subsequent Shooting phase."

 

Finally on pg 150 under Game Summary it states in the Shooting Phase. "Firing an ordnance weapon means that the vehicle can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn. THE CHART BELOW IT Titled --How many weapons can a vehicle fire at full ballistic skill-- says walkers can fire ALL weapons at full BS when stationary and combat speed.

 

What's the answer? I think it shows I can fire my Battle Cannon, Reaper Autocannon, and Havoc Launcher at full BS. Do you agree if yes/no why?

[Grey Mage]

It can fire all of its weapons- check.

Its fired ordnance- the other weapons snap fire. Check.

The summary is just that, a summary, not the actual rules.

[Fibonacci]

There are layers of rules as you are seeing.  Some times you have to work your way down from general rules to specific rules.

 

From general to specific we have;

Vehicle rules

Walker rules -- a specific type of vehicle)

Number of weapons a vehicle/walker may fire -- assuming we are using weapons that follow the general weapon rules.

Battle cannon rules -- a specific type of weapon.

 

Specific rules over ride general rules.

 

But that's the easy part.  Which specific rule are more specific than other can get twisted.  As a rule of thumb, the later it appears in the rule book the more weight it carries to over ride other rules.

 

In this example, firing the battle cannon is the last rule applied and takes precident over all others.  The chart you mention can not have every load out for every vehicle plus you will find out all walkers are not equal.  So the chat assumes a walker with no other rules attached.  What you have is not an entry on the chart since it has a weapon with specifc rules that would over ride the general rules.

 

Yes, it may fire all of its weapons.  But firing the battle cannon makes all other weapons have to snap fire.  The Havoc launcher is a blast weapon and may not fire snap shots.  Again, the specific rule (Snap Shots) over rides the general rule that all weapons fire.

[FeelNoShane]

Dang. So basically my awesome unit I used in 5th is now useless. Might as well get a vindicator. Thanks for the clarification.

[Kilofix]

That's why we don't use Defilers much unfortunately. I wish there was an option to replace the BC.

 

If it's any consolation - some Leman Russ versions and Hellstrikes on aircraft all suffer from the same problem.

[Grey Mage]

Not useless, just requiring different equipment.

However, you can talk about defiler tactics in chaos, or tactica.

[FeelNoShane]

Last thing I had considered is an argument could be made that it should override, same reasoning why MCs change weapons to AP2 not the AP of the actual weapon (IE black mace from CSM)

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Using the battlecannon means all other weapons snapshot. Only things that ignore that are superheavies.

 

So your flamers and havoc launchers are pointless, and your autocannon hits on 6's. Assuming you want to fire the battlecannon that is.

 

My advice, swap the flamers for a scourge, the AC for a powerfist (thats two extra CC attacks) and scurry that defiler into combat as soon as you can.

 

Or take your 4 defilers and convert them into 2 brass scorpions, which are super heavies, and can fire whatever they damn well like, as well as moving 12" in the movement phase, and having a D3 Stomp attack in CC

[FeelNoShane]

Okay everyone. I've thought from all angles and have heard from all of you. I agree with the rule(don't like how it works out for me but hey.) thanks for taking the time to help me learn a little. I'm going over my 2,500pt list at the link below if you have ideas to help with the defiler decisions. Thanks again.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289846-2500pt-tournament-in-august-iron-warriors-go/?p=3660845&do=findComment&comment=3660845

[brother_contagion]

Using the battlecannon means all other weapons snapshot. Only things that ignore that are superheavies.

 

So your flamers and havoc launchers are pointless, and your autocannon hits on 6's. Assuming you want to fire the battlecannon that is.

 

My advice, swap the flamers for a scourge, the AC for a powerfist (thats two extra CC attacks) and scurry that defiler into combat as soon as you can.

 

Or take your 4 defilers and convert them into 2 brass scorpions, which are super heavies, and can fire whatever they damn well like, as well as moving 12" in the movement phase, and having a D3 Stomp attack in CC

 

That sounds enticing! How would one come about performing such a kitbash?!

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

That sounds enticing! How would one come about performing such a kitbash?!

 

 

Google Brass Scorpion defiler conversion, I'm in Work so a lot of the sites are blocked.

 

I do however, like this conversion VERY much!

 

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1370/72/1370725478018.jpg

 

But now we're way off topic! So I'd suggest starting a new thread in the relevant sub :)

[incinerator950]

Using the battlecannon means all other weapons snapshot. Only things that ignore that are superheavies.

 

So your flamers and havoc launchers are pointless, and your autocannon hits on 6's. Assuming you want to fire the battlecannon that is.

 

My advice, swap the flamers for a scourge, the AC for a powerfist (thats two extra CC attacks) and scurry that defiler into combat as soon as you can.

 

Or take your 4 defilers and convert them into 2 brass scorpions, which are super heavies, and can fire whatever they damn well like, as well as moving 12" in the movement phase, and having a D3 Stomp attack in CC

 

Here I wanted to put Warpflame gargoyles on my Defiler for sheer silly factor. 

[minigun762]

Dang. So basically my awesome unit I used in 5th is now useless. Might as well get a vindicator. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Just replace one or more of the arms with the extra DCCW. 

This way you can choose between being a fire support or assault unit each turn.