How do they not know?

[darkangel1030]

Do you really think that the Inqusition and Lords of Tera do not really know the DA secret? If between the CIA an NSA just about everything in the world is known, could this big of a secret really be kept from a universal CIA NSA FBI KGB Mossad etc. organization? They must have an inkling, and just going along, knowing they are loyal. Otherwise they would have full legion on their hands. Does thing have a ring of truth or should I report to the chaplains?

[Son of Carnelian]

Dude. I think you're forgetting an important part of the Warhammer 40k universe. The transmission of information sucks. You're making comparisons to real-world organizations that have reliable and instantaneous methods of communication. Warp transmissions and basically any subspace signals in the Grim Dark Future are garbled at best and completely corrupted at worst. They never told, so that's step one of secrecy. Secondly, any Inquisitor who found out would have a hard time convincing others before he "disappeared." And why bring it up to the Dark Angels? If they serve the Imperium now, that's probably enough for the Lords of Terra. 

 

As with most questions about 40k lore, the first quote is the most applicable. "The universe is a big place and you will not be missed."

[Black Cohort]

Even the inquisition treads lightly with the adeptus astartes, particularly a chapter as old and renowned as the dark angels. A smart inquisitor would only move on them if he had solid proof and a lot of firepower. Otherwise he "gets lost in the warp" and the dark angels claim to have never even heard of him.

[[TA]Typher]

Unless they divinded it.. there aint nooooo way an astartes would spill the beans.

[JeffJedi]

Don't forget the crush of time. Keep in mind that the Heresy was 10,000 years ago in 40k.

 

What was happening just 10,000 years ago from the present day in real life? Wikipedia says:

 

"Domestication of the cat and ox in Ancient Egypt"

 

It's SOOOOO long ago that there is almost no way that anyone knows anything about that time.

[Cydrone]

The High Lords are also probably too busy with the fate of mankind and the big picture of the galaxy at large that the "dark angel problem" is small peas to them

[Antarius]

Plus, quite a lot of the chapter itself doesn't even know.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

An Inquisitor basically knows the information he gets from trusted sources (too scared/in pain to lie) or what he witnesses himself.

 

The secrets of the Dark Angels are told in full to only its most trusted members who can be guaranteed to die before divulging it. Fallen Dark Angels appear so infrequently (10,000 years and the whole of space is a lot of territory to get lost in) that an Inquisitor encountering one, let alone learning anything from one, is extremely unlikely. It isn't like the Fallen go out of their way to make their presence known to Inquisitors either. How's that conversation going to go? "Hey Mr Inquisitor, I'd just like you to know that me and my friends rebelled against the Emperor and followed the dark powers..." BLAM! "Receive the Emperor's judgement, punk!"

 

Basically nobody knows and nobody tells.

[Gillyfish]

They may have some suspicions, but no proof. Records from the Heresy were either deleted, sealed or altered across the board - not just the records about the Dark Angels. Since the Heresy the Dark Angels have done their very best to appear to be one of the most loyal of chapters, albeit one that does not encourage close links with other imperial organisations (all the better to keep the secret). The issue with the Dark Angels from administratum eyes is that they are not completely reliable; they may not see a conflict through to resolution and they do not always work with other forces. However, they have some of the purest geneseed and have fought hard for the Imperium, notching up a number of notable victories along the way.

 

Yet new Chapters using DA geneseed are rarely authorised, so the administratum are probably wary of the Dark Angels and their successors.

[puck]

I think at least certain parts of the Inquisition (at least) know exactly what's going on. Observe how the GK's and Drago in particular interacts with certain characters in the story Pandorax. Avoiding spoilers, there are some fairly heavy hints that the GKs know whats up and for one reason or another (I'm going with continued impressive accomplishments) choose not to act. Interestingly they also choose not to let on that they know either.

[deathspectersgt7]

We the High Lords have bigger fish to fry like what are we having for lunch and what kind of wine will be served.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

I agree with all of this and would like to add one other point. I am currently working with/in NATO. We are a relatively small organization comparing the Administorium to Us and we will completely lose entire groups of 40 or so people for at least a week or two. And the people aren't actively attempting to hide or "skip out" they just get lost in the BS and nightmare paperwork.

 

So take into account you've got an entire Chapter way more respected and much more influential than any of us are and they are actively attempting to hide their secret, plus the fact that if someone does have some "intel" it probably is on some administrators desk and he/she hasn't gotten around to it or doesn't even know what they have.

 

Plus it would kind of ruin the entire story if the secret "came out" right?

[[TA]Typher]

I think at least certain parts of the Inquisition (at least) know exactly what's going on. Observe how the GK's and Drago in particular interacts with certain characters in the story Pandorax. Avoiding spoilers, there are some fairly heavy hints that the GKs know whats up and for one reason or another (I'm going with continued impressive accomplishments) choose not to act. Interestingly they also choose not to let on that they know either.

If i recall correctly Drago hinted that he knew something was up, but didn't know very much. Wasn't the threat that it might be looked into if the DA didn't comply? It was a threat without known facts.

 

It seemed to work, the DA brought the whole chapter. It was a good story BTW.

 

 

In general i think there are hints to something amiss by those in places if power, but i doubt it's readily know by the high lords. I'd also like to think that the first formed legion would also have considerable sway on terra. For example, it's hinted at that the DA are still legion, so terra is reluctant to allow them to make new chapters, but I dont see them trying to sanction them.

 

If a full legion of astartes is your enemy, you might not want to piss them off. Most chapters don't work well together and I think you'd be hard pressed to fight a DA legion with random chapters. If the Legion theory is true, the DA could easily take terra.

[Wade Garrett]

 

If the Legion theory is true, the DA could easily take terra.

 

I'll go out on a limb and say that if nine Legions and their Primarchs failed to take Terra when the Imperium had seven years to fortify it, after ten thousand years of paranoid defense building the Dark Angels and all their successors would "take it" much the same way as a mosquito "takes" the windshield of a speeding eighteen wheeler.

 

And it's only difficult to learn the DA secret if you're not the Crimson Slaughter. Then you can sort of trip over it on your way to something else.

[Hidicul]

I think the DA could take Terra. I don't see them making it obvious their intent until they got to Terra with the rest of the chapters. By then it'd be to late to do anything. Also remember that no other chapter takes as good care of its old relics as we do, so we have vehicles that the rest of the Imperium would be hard pressed to defend against.

[[TA]Typher]

Um... You had three legions with 3 primarchs protecting terra then now they don't. Even then the palace was on the verge of collapse.

 

Today you'd have some IG, custodians and a few sisters. Tough, yes, but not tough enough to stop a legion.

[Wade Garrett]

 

 

 

Today you'd have some IG, custodians and a few sisters. Tough, yes, but not tough enough to stop a legion.

Terra is the most fortified planet in the Imperium. That means it has lots and lots of Imperial Guard. Many, MANY sisters of Battle. The Imperial Fists and Phalanx. Titan Legions. The Assassin Temples. And much, much more.

 

Should the Dark Angels prove so unbelievably foolish as to try and storm Terra, the biggest threat will be that the excess firepower passing through the rapidly scattering atoms that used to be their fleet will hit Mars or the shipyards on Saturn.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

The Dark Angels would not attack Terra, period.

 

They've spent so long trying to atone for their sins (by finding the people responsible and torturing them to death) they're not going to add an ultimate betrayal to their charge.

[Hidicul]

Freeman, I believed this started as a "what would happen if the secret came out and the Imperium moved against the DA" its well known and understood that the DA would never up and rebel.

[Bryan Blaire]

In 10,000 years, I refuse to believe that the Dark Angels wouldn't have managed to get some agents of their own into the Inquisition, and I have no doubt that those agents would be finding ways to forward information "of interest" as marked out by maybe the DA SGM or other high ranking members of the Inner Circle, which could be used to head off potential agents or other entities with anti-DA interests. The Inquisition isn't a monolithic organization with a single focus, command structure, etc, as the CIA/NSA/other intelligence organizations imply that they are. It's got numerous branches with many different focuses and more infighting between members of the same Inquisition branch than there is animosity between fans of long running sports rivals.

 

I think that a more realistic question about the situation is "What would be the most plausible way that the High Lords would know the Dark Angels' secrets (because there is more than just one secret), and what would be the actual impact of their knowing?"

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

In 10,000 years, I refuse to believe that the Dark Angels wouldn't have managed to get some agents of their own into the Inquisition, and I have no doubt that those agents would be finding ways to forward information "of interest" as marked out by maybe the DA SGM or other high ranking members of the Inner Circle, which could be used to head off potential agents or other entities with anti-DA interests. The Inquisition isn't a monolithic organization with a single focus, command structure, etc, as the CIA/NSA/other intelligence organizations imply that they are. It's got numerous branches with many different focuses and more infighting between members of the same Inquisition branch than there is animosity between fans of long running sports rivals.

 

I think that a more realistic question about the situation is "What would be the most plausible way that the High Lords would know the Dark Angels' secrets (because there is more than just one secret), and what would be the actual impact of their knowing?"

 

agreed, I would not be surprised to find out the Legion has influenced the appointments of High Lords, even. They clearly have influence in many areas of the Imperium and are masters of eliminating information.

[MadMek83]

Inquisition has more things to do which are safer than accusing Dark Angels or investigating them. Wresting Carnifex bare handed for instance. Considering how wide the galaxy is, warp storms and as pointed out, transmissions suck. I mean if they would have had good transmission even back in heyday of the Emperor, I think whole Horus Heresy could have been put to an end before anything worse happened. However giant empires are slow to react and with poor transmissions and insane amount of bureaucracy, if Horus Heresy could happen, then Dark Angels secret can easily be hidden. Besides Chaos is among inquisitions worse enemies and Dark Angels are quite good fighting them... So whatever Dark Angels might keep hidden from Inquisition is not Inquisitions priority at the moment.

 

Besides Dark Angels are far older organization than Inquisition, as pointed out, they have had much longer time to play the game and place agents throughout the needed positions. And agreed, Dark Angels would never attack Terra its not logical due they're making the great hunt for the penance of betraying Emperor (at least part of them). Consider Dark Angels attitude, its far more credible for Macragge to rebel against Imperium than the Rock.

[Demus Ragnok]

Do you really think that the Inqusition and Lords of Tera do not really know the DA secret? If between the CIA an NSA just about everything in the world is known, could this big of a secret really be kept from a universal CIA NSA FBI KGB Mossad etc. organization? They must have an inkling, and just going along, knowing they are loyal. Otherwise they would have full legion on their hands. Does thing have a ring of truth or should I report to the chaplains?

The Inquisition is nothing like any of the organizations you mention.

 

The I is more like the Rangers of the American west during the cowboy days.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Demus that is the greatest quote idea I've ever heard. Just like the US Marshals or Rangers is a perfect term.