CatSmasher Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Hello gents, Just wanted some advice or tip for how to deal with armour of 14. the context goes like this: I am very new to the game (played twice) and my friend plays tau (rather ruthlessly) and I can't seem to do anything against his tanks. I forget what they are called but they have 14 armour on the front, 3hp and a series of weapons (one that regularly oneshots termies). Right now I only have long fangs as heavy weapons, which I have run as 2x Las, and 3x ML (which are not very effective against this armour). I am wondering if some thunderwolves with frost weapons and melta bombs would be sufficient, or should I just spam some long fangs. Another thought would be termies with combi weapons in a DP. So far we have only played 750 and 1000pts since my collection is limited. I plan on spending $120(CDN) this week to better my army, and get the captain from GW, so how do you think I should direct it? Thanks in Advance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DobbyKroket Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I would try and hit the sides of his tanks or thunderhammer thunderwolves (strenght 10) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3661889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Templar 307th Comp. Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Melta. Best stuff in the world for AV14. I don't know what options SW has for Melta, but you could take some allied regular Space Marines and bring a squad of Sternguard in a pod with combi meltas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3661926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reede Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Couple possibilities for this kind of situation. Grey Hunters will double melta drop podding in can ruin anybodies day, or possibly Wolf Guard with combi meltas and / or chainfists Full Squad of Lascannon's will more than likely drop the thing as well as give them the range to not be caught in the middle of a shooty army. Contemptor Dreadnought with a Chainfist (method of delivery variable). Also if you take saga of the iron god it goes to AP 1, so boom on a roll of 4. Vindicator, not the best choice, but it's strength 10 and Ordanance, AP1 (roll 2d6 for pen and take the higher result) Sky claws with a melta deepstriking or the aforementioned thunderwolves (though getting them to where they need to be against Tau is going to be difficult). Wolf Scouts w/ meltagun There are definitely a lot of options, you're biggest problem is just finding a proper method of delivery. Almost regardless of it what it is though, dropping something in to deal with that has a highly unlikely chance of survival, but at the very least they can drop in, wreck something, and then eat a lot of the fire so your other units can move up. Then there's always the case of allies, but that's another rabbit hole we need to go down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3661950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Deep striking meltaguns is probably your best bet. Combi-melta wolf guard are inexpensive to get 4 in a drop pod, but they don't score without Logan, and aren't very durable unless you have an incentive to build them up. Of course, taking logan lets you take a logan-bomb*, so that might not be a bad idea, although that does require a large shift in army design. Melta-toting grey hunters are respectable, but you'll need several packs to put enough pressure. So, depends on your situation and collection Also, beware of interceptor, as if you're not careful a Tau army can obliterate a lone drop pod team. Also, there's no AV 14 in the vanilla Tau codex if memory serves, which means you're probably staring down a Forge World vehicle. Not a bad thing, but it does mean they'll most likely allow you to use some ForgeWorld models of your own *Logan can give a unit of space wolves Relentless. Put him in a drop pod with 4-5 Long Fangs with multi-meltas. Season with Arjac Rockfist and/or a Rune Priest. Cackle mercilessly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3661969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I wouldn't even worry making the Wolf Guard scoring with Logan, as they're likely to die anyway. Lots of decent options provided by previous posters, but I'm in the cheap Wolf Guard with Combi-Meltas in a Drop Pod camp. They can "alpha strike" on the first turn and net you a destroyed enemy high value target, then you can charge any survivors into the nearest unit of Fire Warriors, just for kicks. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reede Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 *Logan can give a unit of space wolves Relentless. Put him in a drop pod with 4-5 Long Fangs with multi-meltas. Season with Arjac Rockfist and/or a Rune Priest. Cackle mercilessly. Ah, forgot about this combo which is a god-awfully painful one. However given the price I'd consider it the Lord of War destroyer unit, also sadly you can probably skip the Rune Priest. They can't give out blessings on the turn they arrive via deepstrike (though if you wanted to Jaws other stuff it's certainly a possibility), so at the very least no prescience, and the chance of them making it to the next turn is, as mentioned, very slim, even with those beasts. The cost though to take out an AV14 unit is certainly overkill, not likely to make it's points count (except for the Lord of War one, at that point, it's more than worth it). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astoran Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 To my knowlage nothing in the Tau Codex have a 14 front AV... (or side and rear for that matter) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 He was running hammerheads, and I just took him at his word that they were 14 armour. I have learned that my single drop pod needs to kill something right away or his marker lights and sniper type guys seems to wreck me within a turn. I tried in the last game to take out one of his broadsides (heavy weapons) to help ease the pressure on my advance. I have yet to try wolf guard with combi weapons, which does seem to be the most cost efficient way to alpha strike. I like the cavalry option because of the versatility and the fluff factor, but wolf guard squad with meltas could help. I need to take a bunch to actually eliminate his tanks because of the amount of HP he has I suppose. Great advice, thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Confusion Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Hammer heads are armor 13 front. Next time you play the guy ask to see his codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reede Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 He was running hammerheads, and I just took him at his word that they were 14 armour. I have learned that my single drop pod needs to kill something right away or his marker lights and sniper type guys seems to wreck me within a turn. I tried in the last game to take out one of his broadsides (heavy weapons) to help ease the pressure on my advance. I have yet to try wolf guard with combi weapons, which does seem to be the most cost efficient way to alpha strike. I like the cavalry option because of the versatility and the fluff factor, but wolf guard squad with meltas could help. I need to take a bunch to actually eliminate his tanks because of the amount of HP he has I suppose. Great advice, thanks You don't necessarily need a bunch. My guess is it probably has a max of 3 hull points, so you only need three pens or glances to wreck it, and since you'll either need a single or two dice of a 5+ (and that's only on the front, land it to the side or behind if possible) that won't be amazingly hard. Chances are 5 combi-melta's would pop the thing, especially given that should you pen you're straight up exploding it on a 4+, though it certainly doesn't hurt to up it to 10 (hey it's only 50 points for something being absolutely dead, because I don't care if you're a rhino or a titan, 10 combi melta's crashing into your ass is going to finish you off). Not to mention if they miraculously survive, you now have some wolves ready to crash into their lines or should the armor still somehow be alive you can assault it and hit the back armor with krak grenades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 how about a sicaran with that relics of the armoury that gives it tank hunters? From memory, they have rending so take hull point off on a 6, so that means a 11/26 chance for each of the 6 shots. and there's the lascannon sponsons, too. totally out of left field advice, but something id been musing about lately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichfaust Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Thunderwolves will eat alive pretty much any unit in the Tau codex once they get into combat--they're a really fun unit to play and I'd definitely recommend adding some to your army. And to echo GenConfusion, make sure he's not swindling you on data you may not know. Have a good read through the Tau codex (hell, all codices if you can--know thy enemy and what have you) and get a little more familiar with the units you will be facing on a regular basis. Can you give us a list of what units/models you currently own, CatSmasher? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 3x Wolf guard, with a combi melta and a combi plasma each, in a drop pod. Good all round, cheapish alpha strike unit that can take on armour or heavy infantry, dont expect it to survive more than a turn but itll draw attention away from other things for a turn. With hammerheads being AV13, combined melta alpha strike and missles/lascannon from your long fangs should see that off. Also, what are you currently doing with your teminators (you mentioned they were being one-shotted) are they footslogging? As this is always going to be an issue against a gunline army like tau (get them in pods, and get them up in those xeno faces) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 There are no AV 14 tau tanks, they cap at AV 13. Even then, its only hammerheads and skyrays- and only on the front armor.Make sure your opponent has his codex with him, and ask to check it from time to time so you can verify these things for yourself. That being said... scouts with a pair of plasma pistols and a plasmagun should do a number on anything tau- though you could also bring a meltagun instead of the plasmagun if ye so choose. Rear armor on tau tanks is pretty universal at 10, so plasma is plenty strong... and its also good vs suits and broadsides. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 4 guys in a pod combi melta 127 points!! high chance of paying off! normally pays off for me! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 4 guys in a pod combi melta 127 points!! high chance of paying off! normally pays off for me! may have to try this instead of my 3 guy, combi plas and melta squad (which works out at 3 points less i think!). I usually take the dual combis as my scatter with pods is ridiculously bad so i like to have the two firing options depending on where i end up :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
logun Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 sounds like you need to deal with those marker light boys to. a whirlwind or GH/WG pod with flamers/combi flamers is your best bet there IMO. if you want to run terminators or thunderwolves i would suggest a few storm sheilds when face tau. or any army these days it seems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 For the 1000pts game 1 Rune Priest, Chooser, LL, JotWW 10 Grey Hunters, 2x Plasma and wolf standard 10 Grey Hunters, 2x plasma and wolf standard 5 Long Fangs 2x lascannon and 3x ML Squad Leader, 1x plasma 5 WG in termie armour in Drop Pod ( I tried to drop this on his broad sides behind his gun line, but with very little success) 1 Dreadnaught with Lascannon This is basically the entirety of my force. I have 10x Wolf guard in power amour with an assortment of weapons that I haven't played because I didn't think they were worth the extra points. I hadn't really seen the combi weapons option as feasible until now. I didn't pay anything to buff my termies because in my first game they were shot to ribbons. Also, I have talked to my friend and he admits it was an error on his part. He hasn't played in a few years and at this point I just take his word about his own codex. I have been doing a lot of reading in the BRB to make sure I can be confident about the rules if I ever play with strangers, but so far it has only been a couple of home games with many joints and beers, so some of the details may have been neglected. Thanks so much for the tips, and please let me know what you think about my list so far Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3662715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 For the 1000pts game Just a few suggestions: 1 Rune Priest, Chooser, LL, JotWW 10 Grey Hunters, 2x Plasma and wolf standard 10 Grey Hunters, 2x plasma and wolf standard Each of these Hunter packs could use either a model with MotW or a Power Axe. I'd get them in Pods, too, if you can manage it to get them farther forward. 5 Long Fangs 2x lascannon and 3x ML Squad Leader, 1x plasma I'd take the Plasma gun away from the Squad Leader. He's not likely to be close enough to get to use it, and he can't let his pack Split Fire if he shoots anything either. Saves you some points. 5 WG in termie armour in Drop Pod ( I tried to drop this on his broad sides behind his gun line, but with very little success) What weapons do they have? As suggested above, I'd go with Wolf Guard in Power Armour with Combi-weapons to Alpha Strike his "heavy hitters" (i.e. Hammerheads, Broadsides, etc.). They'll probably die, but at least they'll take away an important enemy asset first. They don't need the TDA investment, as Tau can shred 2+ Armour. 1 Dreadnaught with Lascannon I'd leave this guy out for now and use the points to invest in your Drop Pods and other recommended adjustments. Dreads are very vulnerable to Tau shooting, and your Lascannon isn't likely to make a big difference before he becomes a smoking ruin. This is basically the entirety of my force. I have 10x Wolf guard in power amour with an assortment of weapons that I haven't played because I didn't think they were worth the extra points. I hadn't really seen the combi weapons option as feasible until now. I didn't pay anything to buff my termies because in my first game they were shot to ribbons. Also, I have talked to my friend and he admits it was an error on his part. He hasn't played in a few years and at this point I just take his word about his own codex. I have been doing a lot of reading in the BRB to make sure I can be confident about the rules if I ever play with strangers, but so far it has only been a couple of home games with many joints and beers, so some of the details may have been neglected. Thanks so much for the tips, and please let me know what you think about my list so far V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3663085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I'm not sure where you get the idea hammerheads are AV 14, but weirder mistakes have been made. Definitely recommend combi-weapons on those termies. 4 combi-weapons and a heavy flamer should help front load their damage some Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290019-dealing-with-armour/#findComment-3663088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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