Tenacious_B Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Hey I'm not sure if this has been posed in the past, if it has I'm sorry for beating a dead horse. But to start I have a question about our little silent companions... does anyone by chance know if they are native to Caliban who managed to survive the destruction of the planet? And if the appeared after the fall of The Lion/Loss of Caliban I have a theory to throw out there. If the Watcher's appeared after The Loss could they be the souls of the repented Fallen serving penance say until the return of The Lion to give them their final forgiveness and release for their betrayal? The original Watchers could be the Fallen who died in the initial assault and the break-up of Caliban and every time a Fallen repents a new Watcher appears. What else could be a fitting punishment for the Fallen to have to indefinitely serve as the stewards of the chapter/legion they betrayed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 They existed before the split. Other than that I don't think there are any clues as to what they are but they definitely oppose Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 "They" are definitely Xenos creatures from before the Fall of Caliban, if the Watchers are still the same creatures that have a conversation in Descent of Angels. They also imply that they are part of some cabal that opposes Chaos, and while we have only seen one Cabal that opposes Chaos in the story, it is possible (although I think unlikely) that they are not part of the Cabal, but are instead part of some other cabal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious_B Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Thanks for clearing that up guy's the idea popped into my head while I'm at work and I really haven't the time to do any real follow up research on it, so I figured I'd just post the question and get it answered quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I think their squats and they have sworn loyal service to lion el Johnson for sparring them when he could of eradicated them. Their 2.5' tall and like carrying around weapons and helmets. Their clearly squats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 They seem more like midget Eldar to me from what we see of them in Descent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Minor daemons of Malal... Chaos critters fighting against chaos... :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 They could be oompa loompas, but that would mean willy wonka might be the emperor. Hmmm.... Now it all makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I'd love a bit more official insight as to the origins of the Watchers. We have some - a tantalising link to a cabal possibly - but that serves only to whet the appitite and fuel (sometimes fun) speculation. But like a lot of things DA things are a bit hazy around the edges. Circles within circles and all that. I did like the repentent souls idea though :tu:. Always nice to see ideas thrown into the ring. Cheers I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CovertToaster Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I'm not 100% sure of this but I think in The Lion from The Primarchs short stories that the watchers in the dark have direct contact to El'Jonson and allude to the up coming split and his hibernation. So definitely xenos creatures and it seems that they maybe warp entities but "good" warp entities. I'm drinking though and can't be bothered checking so salt maybe required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 They are very powerful xenos psykers, and enemies of Chaos. They are part of a cabal, but not The Cabal (which is made up of high-ranking Imperial servants, such as Malcador the Sigillite and others who are very much not xenos midgets). On Caliban, the Watchers were interested in containing the power of Chaos, and keeping the people away from its source(s). Caliban was long tainted by Chaos, which is why the Watchers were there at all. The xenos are likely still linked to the Legion....er...various Unforgiven Chapters.. due to the Astartes' extreme hatred of Chaos and the Fallen. They prefer a "hands-off" approach, and and lurk in the shadows (cross-dimensional shadows most likely), so the epithet "Watchers in the Dark" is quite suitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I'd definitely like to reference that the Cabal presented in Legion (which I very much think the Watchers could be a part of/original members that have wandered away/been tasked to do something else - namely imprison the demon inside Caliban) is definitely not made up of any Imperial agents, and they have zero Imperial leanings from everything we've seen about them in Legion and through other John Grammaticus stories. Sounds like there's more than one Cabal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 They are very powerful xenos psykers, and enemies of Chaos. They are part of a cabal, but not The Cabal (which is made up of high-ranking Imperial servants, such as Malcador the Sigillite and others who are very much not xenos midgets). On Caliban, the Watchers were interested in containing the power of Chaos, and keeping the people away from its source(s). Caliban was long tainted by Chaos, which is why the Watchers were there at all. The xenos are likely still linked to the Legion....er...various Unforgiven Chapters.. due to the Astartes' extreme hatred of Chaos and the Fallen. They prefer a "hands-off" approach, and and lurk in the shadows (cross-dimensional shadows most likely), so the epithet "Watchers in the Dark" is quite suitable. I might take issue with the "hands off" part as its stated in our most current codex the the WitD have what appears to be the final say in who gets to be the DAs Chapter Master. Codex isn't in front of me but there is a blurb about a propective chapter master being led away by WitD and sometimes just not returning...spooky indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 That is not the implication at all. If you take into account everything, the implication is... At every single step of a Chapter member's advancement through the ranks and and levels of secret knowledge, along the way there are those who can't handle the truth that is revealed to them. Those individuals do not just stop their advancement, nor are they made into servitors, but they simply...disappear. According to the latest fluff that you refer to, this same thing can still happen to a Chapter Master. Seeing as only the Chapter Master now knows the ultimate truths regarding the Chapter, it is apparently the Watchers in the Dark who now oversee this final revelation...and they who "disappear" any who are found wanting, because nobody else is in a position to do so. [EDITED FOR MORE FUN] Sort of like this: ***** Grand Master Mordecai of the Librarius: "And now it is time for you, our new Supreme Grand Master, to pass beyond even the light of my knowledge, and head deeper into the darkness of the Final Truth. The Sword of Secrets is your key, and the Watchers your guides." The newly elected Supreme Grand Master walked through a door he had never entered before, and down an unfamiliar hallway leading deep into labyrinthine passages beneath The Rock. As he traveled along, more Watchers coalesce from the shadows and join his escort. He had never seen so many of them in one place at any one time. Hours later, the journey ended at a metal wall. Carved upon its smooth cold surface were innumerable litanies, and arcane sigils and runes the likes of which he had never seen. In the center of the surface there was a narrow slot. Watcher: "Insert the Sword of Secrets, and remove it." He did as bidden, and the strange symbols upon the door glowed briefly with a with a barely perceptible light, as did a tall rectangular outline in the center of the surface. The outlined panel slid inward, revealing a passageway. The Supreme Grand Master and the Watchers continued walking, the wall retreating before them. For fifty meters they advanced on the moving plug before it sank into the floor revealing a chamber, the center of which was dominated by a cube of utter darkness. A low, deep hum echoed sonorously in the chamber. Supreme Grand Master: "What is this place you have brought me to, and what lies within this stasis field?" Watcher: "This place is the Obliette, and what lies within the stasis field is the Final Truth." The Watcher pointed to a slot in the floor, and the Supreme Grand Master once again inserted the Sword of Secrets. Dark lightning began to play across the surface of the stasis field. The field's humming became erratic and the darkness flickered, and then they were no more. Revealed was a cage containing a man. He rested on the floor, but rose when he noticed he had an audience. His hair and beard were long an unkempt, and though somewhat emaciated he was tall, and bore the scars of augmentation surgery. For all of that he was still but a mortal man, his wild eyes fixed intently upon the Supreme Grand Master. Supreme Grand Master: "I do not recognize this man, nor do I recall any record of him in all the archives." Watcher: "He is the Final Truth, and though you do not recognize him, he is all too familiar to you. You know him as Luther the Traitor." Luther: "S'up." The Supreme Grand Master's head explodes. Watcher: "Dammit. Here we go again. Inform the Inner Circle that they need to choose another Supreme Grand Master. You three, strip the body and throw it down the plasma core disposal chute. Then clean up this mess, and return the equipment to the armory." Luther: "Wow. That makes for three now, and I didn't even have to mess this one's head to get that response. Until next time then? Watcher: "Shut up, you!" The Watcher hefted the Sword of Secrets, and inserted it into the floor slot. Before Luther could reply, the stasis field powered back up, cutting off whatever the Traitor was about to say. With the large blade resting on its diminutive shoulder, the Watcher began the long walk back to the chambers of the Inner Circle. ***** Yep. That's exactly how it happens. And so it is the Inner Circle chooses the Chapter Master. The Watchers in the Dark merely oversee the final test of worthiness. Other than that, the Watchers don't do much directly, which is what I mean by hands off. We don't see Watchers showing up and holding epic psyker battles against Dark Angels enemies. We see them holding...a helmet and some swords, and watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I still believe it's just gw's way of shoe horning in squats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 shabbadoo Winz teh interwebz... What the fluff says it that there is a mechanism to carry on the knowledge even if the SGM is killed on the field of battle... That COULD be it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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