angryswarmofbees Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Hi all, Is anyone else feeling a bit let down by Dorn's rules? I mean I know he's cheap for a Primarch but that reflects his ability next to his brothers. I was under the impression that when the Emperor wanted to name a Warmaster there were only really 4/5 genuine contenders; Horus, Guilliman, The Lion, Sanguinius and Dorn. I guess I expected his rules, stats and equipment to reflect that. I know being Warmaster isn't all about putting boot to face, but I was looking forward to beefier rules; more akin (ironically) to Perturabo's, or Horus's himself. Maybe I'm wrong about the 4/5 choices, but the latest HH book flat out says he was a serious contender. His weapons are.... meh. His armour's ok. HIs stats are average. His army wide rules are decent but not particularly good, either. Am I missing something? PSI'm not an aggrieved Imperial Fist fan! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshal seanisi Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Well I think you are underestimating his army wide rules. His Army buffers are some of the best of all the Primarchs so far. He's not a beast in combat but if you play to his strenght with your army build, he really is one of the best values per point costs. The bolter ability alone is amazing! Imagine a 20 man strong troop choice backed up by a 10 man Heavy squad with Heavy Bolters! Not to mention what he does for the Breacher squads! All in all he is really a character that is meant to bolster his army and it fits with the fluff well IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I agree. He is one of the most revered Primarchs... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 He is still good. He is very cheap, while his army benefits are huge. Also, he stands a chance of beating Corax, which, as an RG fan, annoys me. Think how I feel. How is it Curze, Perturabo and Dorn all have WS 8, while the Prince of Ravens has WS 7? That is the one thing that bugs me about Corax. Other than that, he is everything his fluff makes him out to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Well I think you are underestimating his army wide rules. His Army buffers are some of the best of all the Primarchs so far. He's not a beast in combat but if you play to his strenght with your army build, he really is one of the best values per point costs. The bolter ability alone is amazing! Imagine a 20 man strong troop choice backed up by a 10 man Heavy squad with Heavy Bolters! Not to mention what he does for the Breacher squads! All in all he is really a character that is meant to bolster his army and it fits with the fluff well IMO. What was his bolter rule again? I think he's aptly where he needs to be and provides buffs but isn't a strong fighter. After all he was killed by a mob of cultists :P I honestly think he's where he needs to be on the power tree. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 How is it Curze, Perturabo and Dorn all have WS 8, while the Prince of Ravens has WS 7? That is the one thing that bugs me about Corax. I brought this up in another thread and this is the answer I got A bit surprised that Corax only has WS 7 The Panoply of the Raven Lord. Type: Melee, Shreed, Blind, Fighting Style, Two-handed. Blind rule in short: If hited = INIATIVE test = if failed = WS + BS reduced to 1. Thet's why he is WS 7 only. It's like lesser version of invisibility ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Well difficult to know since the book isn't out yet for the majority of people. If he makes heavy bolters useful then that's good, always liked them but they've always been relegated in favour of missile launchers and autocannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I think his army buffs are great. In melee he is a bit of a let down but he is one of the weaker ones in the fluff. The stupid thing is that his sword and Mortarion's Scythe, both relatively light weapons, are unwieldy while Ferrus and Vulkan's big@$$ hammers are normal which is really dumb. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 How is it Curze, Perturabo and Dorn all have WS 8, while the Prince of Ravens has WS 7? That is the one thing that bugs me about Corax. I brought this up in another thread and this is the answer I got > A bit surprised that Corax only has WS 7 The Panoply of the Raven Lord. Type: Melee, Shreed, Blind, Fighting Style, Two-handed. Blind rule in short: If hited = INIATIVE test = if failed = WS + BS reduced to 1. Thet's why he is WS 7 only. It's like lesser version of invisibility ... Do they have to take the Blind test multiple times, assuming multiple hits in the same combat? From the wording it appears so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Well he was killed by a bunch of Black Legionnaires... just sayin' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulawful Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Dorn: Hmm, my tabletop rules are a bit of a letdown. Sigismund: Don't worry, dad. I got this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Dorn was killed by the Black Legoon...and Guilliman was hospitalized by the Alpha Legion, Lorgar had his hand shot off by some War Hounds, Russ's Wolf Guard would have ended Angron, and Perturabo was almost killed by a number of Imperial Fists. Honestly, if the rules were based 100% on the fluff Curze would be an unstoppable murdermachine with Divination with a D strength attack that can remove two other Primarchs at once, and Vulkan should die when assaulted by a grot with a spork. This way lies madness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Just poking fun man lol, plus 'hospitalized/wounded' isn't the same as 'killed by'. To my knowledge he is the only primarch actually killed by Astartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 You don't know if he was killed by Astartes, no one knows what was on the bridge and afaik only his hand was recovered as of the most recent fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I like to believe that Dorn succombed to his wounds...while making his way back to the exit. After everyone/thing else was dead! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Thaligon Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 How is it Curze, Perturabo and Dorn all have WS 8, while the Prince of Ravens has WS 7? That is the one thing that bugs me about Corax. I brought this up in another thread and this is the answer I got >> A bit surprised that Corax only has WS 7 The Panoply of the Raven Lord. Type: Melee, Shreed, Blind, Fighting Style, Two-handed. Blind rule in short: If hited = INIATIVE test = if failed = WS + BS reduced to 1. Thet's why he is WS 7 only. It's like lesser version of invisibility ... Do they have to take the Blind test multiple times, assuming multiple hits in the same combat? From the wording it appears so. BRB p.34: BLIND - Any unit hit by a model or weapon with this special rule must immediately take an Initiative test... Yes. If i am reading BRB right, hitted model/unit must pass I test for every hit. Unless it was FAQued. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Awesome. This makes him much better :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryswarmofbees Posted April 26, 2014 Author Share Posted April 26, 2014 Thanks for the replies. It's not Dorn that grants the bolted bonus to the Imperial Fists, it's the Legion Astartes (Imperial Fists) rule I think. @Marshal Seneisi: what other buffs does he add? I think I missed something in his rules? I loved how he came across in the BL novels, and am still a little disappointed in him. Especially because normally ForgeWorld do a great job representing fluff with rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemujinZero Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Dorn's buffs are re-rolling ones on cover saves for up to three bits of terrain or fortifications, giving everyone LD10 and +D3 to assault results, and giving his unit crusader and furious charge. He also makes terminators troops (and Phalanx Breachers, but that's hardly a buff since they're the worst unit in all of 30K). I think Dorn is also the only primarch who can't fire his ranged weapon and charge in the same turn. Thank goodness we got Sigismund and the Templar Brethren to balance out the worst primarch and worst legion specific unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Dorn is very cheap, though, and his army buffs are nice. Phalanx Warders are just terrible, the worst unit I have seen in 40/30k. I don't believe they tested them at all....they're so bad it's laughable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corai Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Dorn is very cheap, though, and his army buffs are nice. Phalanx Warders are just terrible, the worst unit I have seen in 40/30k. I don't believe they tested them at all....they're so bad it's laughable. For those of us not lucky enough to have Extermiantion yet, could you enlighten us what is so bad about the phalanx warders? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 They are Breacher squads. More expensive, while their benefit is that they may buy power weapons and get +1I when charged. A 20 'M unit costs 400 points. Ridiculously terrible. A shame, considering many of the other units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 They are a melee squad with an invulnerable save though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Dorn is very cheap, though, and his army buffs are nice. Phalanx Warders are just terrible, the worst unit I have seen in 40/30k. I don't believe they tested them at all....they're so bad it's laughable. Justaerin Terminators would like a word with you... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund's Ghost Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 While the invulnerable save is good, they are still just 3+ marines! and will die to massed bolter fire. It's the same story as the justaerin terminators. Great unit in the fluff, but grossly overpriced on the tabletop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290134-underwhelmed-by-dorn/#findComment-3664754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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