Reign of Chaos (A Chaos Revamp project)

MaliGn · May 14, 2014

No, I mean where you have actually made changes so far to set them aside from where you have yet to detail the rules eg discipline of tzeentch has powers but nurgle doesn't. Just until they are all done the ones with rules written should be distinct. Stops people just seeing empty pages and moving on.

maverike_prime · May 15, 2014

So had a bit from the inspiration bug tonight. Not going to go into a lot of detail about it, but I wanted to post it up to give folks something to look at. After building this, I'm very inclined to continue with this expanded 2-page layout for the units sections of the codex. There's some stuff to finish on it, but yeah. Here it is:

http://chaoscodex.mgc-projects.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/01-02spread-thumbforums.jpg

Vesper · May 15, 2014

Hey maverike_prime, just here to offer some support to your ambitious project.

Great work so far, I'm liking what I see.

About Abaddon, there's a thing I love in Zhufor's rules, from FW. He can take a Terminator retinue that is included in his HQ slot (effectively making it his bodyguard and stuf). Might be something cool to include in Abaddon's rules, as we know he's always followed by his elite Terminator bodyguard.

My 2 cents.

maverike_prime · May 15, 2014

Hey maverike_prime, just here to offer some support to your ambitious project.

Great work so far, I'm liking what I see.

About Abaddon, there's a thing I love in Zhufor's rules, from FW. He can take a Terminator retinue that is included in his HQ slot (effectively making it his bodyguard and stuf). Might be something cool to include in Abaddon's rules, as we know he's always followed by his elite Terminator bodyguard.

My 2 cents.

I've already got an option to take a unit of Chosen for every lord as a retinue that doesn't count against the Force org slots. I've also taken out the Chaos Terminators entirely and given Chosen the option to take terminator armor so you can do that.

incinerator950 · May 17, 2014

You mean like 3.5? Nice. Are you going to attach the Abbadon's bodyguard rule from the BL supplement to that as well?

maverike_prime · May 18, 2014

You mean like 3.5? Nice. Are you going to attach the Abbadon's bodyguard rule from the BL supplement to that as well?

if you are referring to the War Bringers or whatever the name is upgrade, no. I feel that's an option that is largely unique to a Black Legion assembled force and thus is better left in the Black Legion Codex.

Vesper · May 18, 2014

They're called Bringers of Despair :).

Cool stuff, I always like some 3.5 flavour.

Have you thought about making a Chaos Potms ?

Could be great to create a distinction between Chaos Dreadnoughts and Hellbrutes. For instance, let's make the dread quite classical (while allowing him to take two ranged arms) and make the Hellbrute an upgrade that turns the Dread into a crazed animal.

daboarder · May 18, 2014

Unless your changing the boons rolls by removing the stupid spawns and DP ones, well then you might want to add a note to Abby that he must re-roll those rolls, as he cant be turned to spawn or a DP in the current rules

maverike_prime · May 19, 2014

They're called Bringers of Despair .

Cool stuff, I always like some 3.5 flavour.

Have you thought about making a Chaos Potms ?

Could be great to create a distinction between Chaos Dreadnoughts and Hellbrutes. For instance, let's make the dread quite classical (while allowing him to take two ranged arms) and make the Hellbrute an upgrade that turns the Dread into a crazed animal.

I do have some plans on the board for HelBrutes. Gimme a couple days to smash 'em down and put a page together with the options.

Unless your changing the boons rolls by removing the stupid spawns and DP ones, well then you might want to add a note to Abby that he must re-roll those rolls, as he cant be turned to spawn or a DP in the current rules

um... that's already the case. It's in the FAQ that Abaddon re-rolls all results of Spawnhood and Dark Apotheosis.

Beyond that, did some work on some of the army wide stuff.

On that note, did some work on a couple things last night (These are for the Chaos Renegades Codex):

Daemon Weapon: The most powerful of all weapons used by Chaos Champions have Daemons bound into them, imprisoned by the complex rites of the Soul Forges. Each weapon is a unique artefact, named for the warp-entity trapped within it. Some of these bear only a flicker of sentience, but some rage so powerfully against their fate that their wielder becomes a slave, and the blade the master.

During each fight sub-phase, at your characters initiative step during which the bearer of a Daemon Weapon is locked in combat, roll a D6.on a Roll of a 1, the model immediately suffers a wound with no armour saves allowed and his Weapon Skill is 1 until the end of the Phase. On a roll of 2+, the Bearer gains that many additional attacks until the end of the phase. If the Bearer has multiple weapons, only roll a D6 is he chooses to attack with a Daemon Weapon.

Champion of Chaos: It is not unusual for the Chaos powers to bestow strange boons and mutations upon those will kill in their name. Not all of these boons are beneficial - the Dark ones are as fickle as they are inscrutable, and even their most ardent followers are little more then pawns in a celestial game.

When a model with the Champion of Chaos Special rule kills an enemy Character in a Challange you must check to see if the Dark Gods reward him. To do this, roll a D66 on the Chaos Boon table opposite - by this we mean roll two D6, ome being designated as the ‘tens’ and the second being designated as the ‘ones’. Then refer to the table opposite to see what boon (if any) your champion has gained. So, if you roll a 3 on the tens, and a 5 on the ones, you would get a D66 result of 35 - your champion would now benefit from the Mechanoid Chaos Boon. This boon lasts for the rest of the game; make a note of it on your army roster next to the character’s entry. If a boon is rolled that the characrer already has, the roll has no effect. If an enemy Character dies as a result of multiple Wounds being allocated to it simultaneously, and one or more of those wounds were caused by te Champion, that champion still rolls on the Chaos Boon table. Not that destroying models in a sweeping advance does not confer a roll on the Chaos Boon Table. Each time a model with this special rule declines a challange, any further rolls on the Chaos Boon table it makes are done so with a -2 modifier to the D66 result. This is cumilitive, so a model that declines 3 challanges will be making rolls with a -6 modifier.

Mark of Khorne: Infantry, and Jump Infantry Models gain the Rage special rule.

Bike and Calvery Models conduct Hammer of Wrath attacks at +1 Strength.

Tank Models Impose a -1 to leadership checks for Death or Glory.

Walker type models gain Hammer of Wrath

Flyer models gain the Strafing Run special rule.

Mark of Nurgle: Infantry, and Jump Infantry Models have +1 toughness.

Bike Models Have the shrouded special rule.

Vehicle models automatically inflict a S5 AP- hit on all non-vehicle, and not marked by Nurgle, models within 3” of the model at the begining of the shooting phase.

Psykers with Mark of Nurgle must generate at least one of their powers from the Discipline of Nurgle.

Mark of Slaanesh: Infantry, and Jump infanty models have +1 initiative

Bike and flyer type models gain a +1 to their jink save

Vehicles:..... (I got nothing just now. Any suggestions?)

Psykers with Mark of Slaanesh must generate at least one of their powers from the Discipline of Slaanesh.

Mark of Tzeentch: Infantry, and Jump Infantry Models with the Mark of Tzeentch gain a +1 modifier to their Invulnerable save if they have one (to a maximum of 3+), or a 6+ invulnerable if they do not already have an invulnerable save.

Bike Models change their type to Jetbike

Tank and Vehicle models force re-rolls of successful hits that generate a penetration.

Psykers with the Mark of Tzeentch must generate at least one of their powers from the Discipline of Tzeentch.

Mark of Chaos Undivided: Infantry, Jump Infantry, and Bikes Models may choose to fail any leadership check they are called on to make.

Vehicle models that suffer a ‘Weapon Destroyed” result may choose which weapon is destroyed, OR sacrifice an additional Hull point in place of the weapon destroyed result.

maverike_prime · May 22, 2014

Automatically Appended Next Post:
For Chaos Renegades:
So working on the Armory some more. Looking at it I'd like to open it up more for character purchases. So here's my thoughts.

Inferno Bolts may be purchased by characters with mark of Tzeentch
Blight Grenades may be purchased by Characters with Mark of Nurgle.

So now there's Slaanesh and Khorne.
What to do about them? Any thoughts from anyone?
Ammo that forces re-rolls of successful saves for khorne?

An augment that forces leadership rolls in CC for Slaanesh?

And an Idea for Chaos legions:
an upgrade for Land Raiders:

Firey Deployment 50 pts
A tactic that was originally pioneered by the Blood Angels, during the Great Crusade, was to utilize Thunderhawk Transporters in conjunction with Land Raiders to bring the tank in to a forward position and then drop the tank in the midst of the battle. The tactic was later adopted by other Legions but largely abandoned with time though there are still those that remember the tactic and have advanced it. The Tactic is incredibly dangerous, even the robust constuction of a Land Raider is not impervious to damage, but the possibility of bringing the fire power of a Land Raider to bear in such a rapid fashion can turn the tide of battle if used appropriately. More recent revisions of the tactics call for a pin point fire bombing attack on the location that is intended to receive the Land Raider sowing confusion and fire across the area that suddenly finds itself facing down the fire power of a Land Raider.

This is an upgrade that can be purchased for a Chaos Land Raider. It grants the Land Raider the ability to perform a special kind of Deep Strike deployment as outlined below.
Select a location for the Land Raider to deep Strike as normal, including scatter, but before the Land Raider is placed conduct a single attack from a weapon with S5 AP- Heavy 3, Large Blast, ignores Cover on the same space. Once the attack is complete place the Land Raider on the selected spot. It suffers a single S8 AP- hit in the process.

maverike_prime · May 26, 2014

maverike_prime · June 2, 2014

Okay so was thinking on the Chaos Commander question again. Making hims a Chaplin style character didn't really seem to work so I went back to the drawing board to try and plot it out. I think I found the problem. The Chaos Lord is too under powered to make a lesser lord really viable. Imagine if the Space marine Captain was the top level non-named character option for the Space Marine Codex. Command wise, what is between a captain and Sergeant? Yeah, not much. And any attempt to make something that fits in that space either winds up too much like the Captain or too much like a over-hyped Sergeant. So... what's his point?

So what's the answer? Well, it's kind of a convoluted approach honestly. First thing was to beef up the Chaos Lord to something a bit more substantial, making him more on part with a Space Marine Chapter Master. The big difference between a Chapter Master and a Captain is the Orbital bombardment. Yeah, the extra wound and attack are nice. But let's be honest, if you're spending the extra 40 points you want that Orbital bombardment. So what can a Chaos Lord have to match that? Well just give him an Orbital Bombardment ability, right? Well, it's not a bad suggestion, but what does Orbital Bombardment have to do with Khorne? Well I could just call it a Blood Explosion. If my name was Matt Ward and I was writing the Blood Angles codex maybe. And what about Nurgle? Eh just call it a Plague Strike, and that'll sit right up there next to the Wolf Claws (lightning claws) in terms of good background thoughts. And honestly, the idea of just giving the Chaos Lord an Orbital bombardment just seems a bit too lazy in terms of design work, but it is justifiable to give the Lord orbital bombardment because just because he turns traitor doesn't mean he looses command of the assets that allowed him to under take that ability. But then again, not all "Chaos Lords" have those assets. So make it a purchasable upgrade?

Perhaps, but that sounds like I'm getting further down on a potentially slippery slop. Then I hit on an idea: Make a series of abilities that are tied to the respective mark, or lack of lark, the Lord has. Want Orbital bombardment? Don't take a mark on your Chaos Lord. It's that simple. But I also crafted a series of 5 other abilities for the other Marks of Chaos. You don't pay for them beyond the cost of buying the lord and the respective mark. So what kinds of abilities did I make for each mark? Well here's a break down of them:

Unmarked: Orbital Bombardment. 'Nuff Said.
Mark of Chaos Undivided: You get to take a unit (that is 10 models or less) that is deep striking, and bring it on with 6" of your lord with out scatter AND it is able to launch an assault that turn.
Mark of Nurgle: You get to make one piece of terrain dangerous to anything that isn't a flyer. Oh, and no you do NOT get to auto-pass dangerous terrain checks on this piece of terrain. If you are not a flyer and you move into/over this piece of terrain, you must take a dangerous terrain test.
Mark of Khorne: Hey I'm in a challange and I inflicted 3 unsaved wounds. Guess what? I get to make 3 more attacks. Oh you didn't save 2 of them? I get to make 2 more attacks. Oh wow, you failed to save both of those wounds? I get to make 2 more attacks.
Mark of Tzeentch: Select an enemy character. If the Lord attacks that character, he must re-roll all successful saves.
mark of Slaanesh: I inflicted a wound in close combat that you didn't save. Make a leadership check. Oh you failed? Your WS, BS, and I are reduced to 1, until the end of the next turn.

All of these are one-use abilities so there's that limit. I've tried to make all of the abilities actual usable but not over powering in their own right. I'm not totally sold on all of the individual abilities, but I do feel very strongly that the mark aligned abilities is the right direction to move in.

So what does all of this have to do with the Chaos Commander?

Well, now I have a place to put the Chaos Commander, command structure wise. He's more akin to a captain. So, that's what I've done.See the pages below.

Chaos Lord (Full ress 2 page spread)
http://mgc-projects.com/projects/chaos_codes/chaos_lord%28thumb%296_2_14.png

Chaos Commander (Full ress 2 page spread)
http://mgc-projects.com/projects/chaos_codes/chaos_commander%28thumb%29-6_2_14.png

Favor of the Gods Armory page (Full ress image) This is the page that details the respective abilities the Lord would have access to based on their Mark or lack of one.
http://mgc-projects.com/projects/chaos_codes/lost_and_damned_07%28thumb%29.png

daboarder · June 2, 2014

bah, not a fan.

You've taken away half the benefits of the units without removing the drawbacks and leaving the cost the same.

Your marks are wildly all over the place in what they do, changing depending on the unit (for no logical reason) If you want nurgle bikes to have shrouded and tzeentch to get jetbikes then make those additional upgrades that they can take after having a mark.

And finally you've not changed any of the major flaws with the units (the boon tables still all sorts of stupid)

maverike_prime · June 2, 2014

bah, not a fan.

You've taken away half the benefits of the units without removing the drawbacks and leaving the cost the same.

Your marks are wildly all over the place in what they do, changing depending on the unit (for no logical reason) If you want nurgle bikes to have shrouded and tzeentch to get jetbikes then make those additional upgrades that they can take after having a mark.

And finally you've not changed any of the major flaws with the units (the boon tables still all sorts of stupid)

What benefits have I removed?

As for the chaos boon table, if you don't like it, don't use it. it's that simple.

And as for the additional upgrades... so you want to have T7 bikers with shrouded running around? Or T7 Jetbikes? Cause there's really only 2 ways to accomplish either set of upgrades:

(Assuming I kept the +1 T boost to Mark of nurgle across the board)

1: Limit the respective upgrades to the mark in question.

Example: Biker + Mark of Nurgle + Extended Armor + The Shrouded upgrade but make the shrouded upgrade available only to nurgle bikers. So now you've got T7 bikers with shrouded.

2: Tie the upgrade in question the mark in question.

Example: Biker + Mark of Nurgle (Which includes the Shrouded Upgrade) + Extended armor. Yeah, could do this and you've now got T7 bikers with Shrouded. 'cept then the Plague marines, Obliterators, Nurgle Chaos Marines, and Nurgle Chaos Lord would also all have shrouded. Why?

If effect in question is going to be limited to just models with marks of nurgle, why not just include it in the Mark of Nurgle? and Like wise, if it's to be limited only to models with the bike type and have the Mark of nurgle... why not just make the Mark of Nurgle effect change based on the unit type?

daboarder · June 2, 2014

id like to have Feel no pain on nurgle marked units (or even just on the damned units that had FNP before)

you know, for someone thats asked for feedback your constantly aggressive about it.

you ever sit down and think, gee yeah the boon table is pretty bad, and one of the biggest things CSM gripe about, maybe I should look at it? NAH! I'll just pull a GW on 'em

maverike_prime · June 2, 2014

id like to have Feel no pain on nurgle marked units (or even just on the damned units that had FNP before)

you know, for someone thats asked for feedback your constantly aggressive about it.

you ever sit down and think, gee yeah the boon table is pretty bad, and one of the biggest things CSM gripe about, maybe I should look at it? NAH! I'll just pull a GW on 'em

I'm sorry the major grip I've heard about the boon table was the requirement to use it, weather you want to or not. So, I removed the requirement to use it. If you want to use it, use it. If not, don't. I'm sorry if you feel I'm being aggressive about that point, but I honestly do not know a better way to say that.

As for the feel no pain point, it's a rule I honestly I never liked on plague marines. They're supposed to be rotted and swollen, not insensate. It's not that can't feel pain and thus ignore anything that isn't a kill shot, it's that what would be a kill against a normal marine, isn't against a plague marine. At least that's been my view on the topic. That's why I gave plague marines 2 wounds and gave the feel no pain to the thousand sons.

Sception · June 4, 2014

My own main gripe about the boon table is that it's a reward for winning challenges, but several key pieces of gear our independent characters need access to in order to compete on equal footing with their loyalist marine counterparts - artificer armor, ~~FNP~~ EW etc - are only obtainable by random roll on the boon table, meaning that for the most parts our champions of chaos are starting at a severe disadvantage in the one area of the game they're supposed to specialize in, leading chaos characters to go to severe means to avoid exactly the game situation that, thematically, they should be seeking out.

I like the idea of a boon table. I like the idea of eye of the gods style bonuses for killing characters and the like. I love that path to glory stuff. But the implementation is borked, and should be re-worked from the ground up. Throw it out. Start over.

EDIT: EW, I meant EW, not FNP

daboarder · June 4, 2014

My own main gripe about the boon table is that it's a reward for winning challenges, but several key pieces of gear our independent characters need access to in order to compete on equal footing with their loyalist marine counterparts - artificer armor, FNP, etc - are only obtainable by random roll on the boon table, meaning that for the most parts our champions of chaos are starting at a severe disadvantage in the one area of the game they're supposed to specialize in, leading chaos characters to go to severe means to avoid exactly the game situation that, thematically, they should be seeking out.

I like the idea of a boon table. I like the idea of eye of the gods style bonuses for killing characters and the like. I love that path to glory stuff. But the implementation is borked, and should be re-worked from the ground up. Throw it out. Start over.

Personally Im for simplifying it, ditch the Spawn and Apotheosis results (both those outcomes are the result of long walks on the path of corruption, not the kind of thing that happens on tuesday.

Something like

1 = +1WS&BS

2 = +1W (regain a wound/grab another one)

3 = +2A

4 = +1T

5 = +1I

6 = +1S

maverike_prime · June 4, 2014

My own main gripe about the boon table is that it's a reward for winning challenges, but several key pieces of gear our independent characters need access to in order to compete on equal footing with their loyalist marine counterparts - artificer armor, FNP, etc - are only obtainable by random roll on the boon table, meaning that for the most parts our champions of chaos are starting at a severe disadvantage in the one area of the game they're supposed to specialize in, leading chaos characters to go to severe means to avoid exactly the game situation that, thematically, they should be seeking out.

I like the idea of a boon table. I like the idea of eye of the gods style bonuses for killing characters and the like. I love that path to glory stuff. But the implementation is borked, and should be re-worked from the ground up. Throw it out. Start over.

Personally Im for simplifying it, ditch the Spawn and Apotheosis results (both those outcomes are the result of long walks on the path of corruption, not the kind of thing that happens on tuesday.

haha. All I could think of when I read that was the old nursey rhyme for Solomon Grundy.

Solomon Grundy,

Born on a Monday,

Christened on Tuesday,

Married on Wednesday,

Took ill on Thursday,

Grew worse on Friday,

Died on Saturday,

Buried on Sunday.

though in this case it'd be:

Solomon Grundy,

Born on a Monday,

ascended on Tuesday,

Married on Wednesday, just don't ask,

Took ill on Thursday, what'd you think was going to happen?

Grew worse on Friday,

Died on Saturday,

Buried on Sunday.

Something like

1 = +1WS&BS

2 = +1W (regain a wound/grab another one)

3 = +2A

4 = +1T

5 = +1I

6 = +1S

the danger I see in that is what happens if you get a character who has like the the Black Mace. Killed a character in a challenge, got +2a attacks. Got in a challenge next turn, killed him, got +1WS. Got in another challange killed him. Got Plus 1 toughness. Though a simplified chart isn't unreasonable, I would avoid the stat changing effect.

perhaps something like this:

1= Yeah, that was a crap kill. You aint getting anything for it.

2= Character has Shrouded special rule (though admitidly if a nurgle character on a bike with my marks got this result it'd be redundant)

3= Character has fleet special rule (Which is actually wasted on anyone that isn't an independent character)

4= Character's melee attacks have the Shred special rule.

5= Character melee attacks have the poisoned rule

6= Character has eternal warrior.

daboarder · June 4, 2014

My own main gripe about the boon table is that it's a reward for winning challenges, but several key pieces of gear our independent characters need access to in order to compete on equal footing with their loyalist marine counterparts - artificer armor, FNP, etc - are only obtainable by random roll on the boon table, meaning that for the most parts our champions of chaos are starting at a severe disadvantage in the one area of the game they're supposed to specialize in, leading chaos characters to go to severe means to avoid exactly the game situation that, thematically, they should be seeking out.

I like the idea of a boon table. I like the idea of eye of the gods style bonuses for killing characters and the like. I love that path to glory stuff. But the implementation is borked, and should be re-worked from the ground up. Throw it out. Start over.

Personally Im for simplifying it, ditch the Spawn and Apotheosis results (both those outcomes are the result of long walks on the path of corruption, not the kind of thing that happens on tuesday.

haha. All I could think of when I read that was the old nursey rhyme for Solomon Grundy.

Solomon Grundy,

Born on a Monday,

Christened on Tuesday,

Married on Wednesday,

Took ill on Thursday,

Grew worse on Friday,

Died on Saturday,

Buried on Sunday.

though in this case it'd be:

Solomon Grundy,

Born on a Monday,

ascended on Tuesday,

Married on Wednesday, just don't ask,

Took ill on Thursday, what'd you think was going to happen?

Grew worse on Friday,

Died on Saturday,

Buried on Sunday.

Something like

1 = +1WS&BS

2 = +1W (regain a wound/grab another one)

3 = +2A

4 = +1T

5 = +1I

6 = +1S

the danger I see in that is what happens if you get a character who has like the the Black Mace. Killed a character in a challenge, got +2a attacks. Got in a challenge next turn, killed him, got +1WS. Got in another challange killed him. Got Plus 1 toughness. Though a simplified chart isn't unreasonable, I would avoid the stat changing effect.

perhaps something like this:

1= Yeah, that was a crap kill. You aint getting anything for it.

2= Character has Shrouded special rule (though admitidly if a nurgle character on a bike with my marks got this result it'd be redundant)

3= Character has fleet special rule (Which is actually wasted on anyone that isn't an independent character)

4= Character's melee attacks have the Shred special rule.

5= Character melee attacks have the poisoned rule

6= Character has eternal warrior.

Why the hell must Chaos ALWAYS have a kick in the teeth result?

I dont see eldar having a "tripped and broke your necK" result for their battle focus, or Space marines with a "sorry your world view shattered and now your a chaos marine" result for ATSKNF

As to your other results, about half of them dont do jack for sergeants (most likely to roll on the table) so we are right back at useless results.

the boon table needs to be a benefit. Hells if you've actually managed to beat a squad leader from almost any other army you deserve a medal

maverike_prime · June 4, 2014

My own main gripe about the boon table is that it's a reward for winning challenges, but several key pieces of gear our independent characters need access to in order to compete on equal footing with their loyalist marine counterparts - artificer armor, FNP, etc - are only obtainable by random roll on the boon table, meaning that for the most parts our champions of chaos are starting at a severe disadvantage in the one area of the game they're supposed to specialize in, leading chaos characters to go to severe means to avoid exactly the game situation that, thematically, they should be seeking out.

I like the idea of a boon table. I like the idea of eye of the gods style bonuses for killing characters and the like. I love that path to glory stuff. But the implementation is borked, and should be re-worked from the ground up. Throw it out. Start over.

Personally Im for simplifying it, ditch the Spawn and Apotheosis results (both those outcomes are the result of long walks on the path of corruption, not the kind of thing that happens on tuesday.

haha. All I could think of when I read that was the old nursey rhyme for Solomon Grundy.

Solomon Grundy,

Born on a Monday,

Christened on Tuesday,

Married on Wednesday,

Took ill on Thursday,

Grew worse on Friday,

Died on Saturday,

Buried on Sunday.

though in this case it'd be:

Solomon Grundy,

Born on a Monday,

ascended on Tuesday,

Married on Wednesday, just don't ask,

Took ill on Thursday, what'd you think was going to happen?

Grew worse on Friday,

Died on Saturday,

Buried on Sunday.

Something like

1 = +1WS&BS

2 = +1W (regain a wound/grab another one)

3 = +2A

4 = +1T

5 = +1I

6 = +1S

the danger I see in that is what happens if you get a character who has like the the Black Mace. Killed a character in a challenge, got +2a attacks. Got in a challenge next turn, killed him, got +1WS. Got in another challange killed him. Got Plus 1 toughness. Though a simplified chart isn't unreasonable, I would avoid the stat changing effect.

perhaps something like this:

1= Yeah, that was a crap kill. You aint getting anything for it.

2= Character has Shrouded special rule (though admitidly if a nurgle character on a bike with my marks got this result it'd be redundant)

3= Character has fleet special rule (Which is actually wasted on anyone that isn't an independent character)

4= Character's melee attacks have the Shred special rule.

5= Character melee attacks have the poisoned rule

6= Character has eternal warrior.

Why the hell must Chaos ALWAYS have a kick in the teeth result?

I dont see eldar having a "tripped and broke your necK" result for their battle focus, or Space marines with a "sorry your world view shattered and now your a chaos marine" result for ATSKNF

As to your other results, about half of them dont do jack for sergeants (most likely to roll on the table) so we are right back at useless results.

the boon table needs to be a benefit. Hells if you've actually managed to beat a squad leader from almost any other army you deserve a medal

I wouldn't exactly consider "no change" as a kick in the teeth, and space marines don't have to make a check for ATSKNF, They just have it. and space marines do have a 'kick in the teeth' result as you put it. It's called a failed leadership check. And you really don't have to jump down my throat over everything. Seriously, A- it's a game. B- this is a fan project. nothing said thus far requires that you curse in your response.

1= Character has Shrouded special rule (though admitidly if a nurgle character on a bike with my marks got this result it'd be redundant)

2= Character 's melee attacks now have the Flail special rule

3= Character's melee attacks have the Shred special rule.

4= Character melee attacks have the poisoned rule

5= Character has eternal warrior.

6= Character's melee attacks have instant death

Sception · June 4, 2014

How about a general mechanic:

Uncontrollable Mutation. When a model suffers uncontrollable mutation, roll a leadership test, with a -1 penalty for every gift of chaos the model has. If a unit suffers a Uncontrollable Mutation, choose one model to make the test. If the model fails, it suffers a single wound for each point by which it failed the test, with no saves of any kind allowed. If a model suffers its last wound as a result of uncontrollable mutation, replace it with a spawn.

Then you can use that general rule as a drawback in multiple areas of the rules. Model starts the game with daemonic gifts? Mutation check. Chaos Champion wins a challenge? Mutation check, and if passed gain random gift, with slim chance of become daemon prince (I like when that happens in games, just want the rules to handle it better). Suffer perils when trying to cast from a chaos codex lore? Mutation check. Roll a one on a daemon weapon? Mutation check.

Make it a standardized thing, so other rules can interact with it:

Dark Destiny - specialist gear, present on (non ahriman) special characters: reroll failed mutation checks, but cannot become prince.

Rubric of Ahriman - model never takes mutation checks (also: +1 mastery level for characters; S&P, FNP, and fearless for non-characters, req mark of tzeentch, only available for vets, terminators, & ICs, replaces thousand sons as a unit). note though that this means CoCs with rubric do not gain random gifts for winning challenges - they do not take the check in the fist place, and so cannot pass it.

Then give each alignment (other than tzeentch, maybe?) a wargear item or gift that chaos players who like challenges could purchase for their characters to make them better duelists. Ie, Slaanesh - your challenges cannot be denied, & you choose which character accepts if more than one enemy character is available. Undivided: some sort of stat boost in challenges. Khorne: some sort of stat boost in rounds where an enemy refuses your challenge. Nurgle: some sort of stat penalty to enemies that accept your challenges. Tzeentch - you're sneaky casters by trade, you don't need added incentive to act out of character.

After that, you can drop the requirement for challenges - as the options would be there to make chaos players want to seek out challenges of their own volition.

maverike_prime · June 4, 2014

Okay, so lemme see if I follow what you're suggesting Malisteen;

a character accepts or issues a challenge, but isn't required to do so. right?

they fight, and the character wins. Now he takes the uncontrollable mutation check, right?

If he passes the check, he rolls on the boon chart, apply results as indicated.

If he fails then he suffers one wound. Period, no questions asked. he takes a wound.

Sception · June 4, 2014

The suggestion is still in sketchiest form, but in its initial, sketchy form:

If you fail, you not only suffer a wound, you suffer a wound for each point you fail by, and suffer a -1 on the roll for each daemonic gift you have - so the more gifts you pile up in a game, the more likely you are to just spontaneously spawn yourself, solving the problem of out of characters getting out of control after winning a couple challenges.

And if you pass the check after winning a challenge, you would roll on 'a' boon chart, not the same one currently had. Many items would be pulled out of boon chart and made regular wargear or artifacts in some form or other (2+ saves, eternal warrior especially). The new boon chart could be made of weird daemonic gift kinds of things, (acid blood, etc), which would no longer be directly purchasable except as random mutation rolls. These individual gifts would be redesigned as things useful to someone who fights challenges - no dead rolls.

Looking back at it the next day, though, this looks excessively punishing. "pass a leadership test or die" as a 'reward' for winning challenges seems excessive.

So perhaps do cut it back to a single lost wound, and then maybe limit the 'champions of chaos' rule to multi-wound ICs? I've already mentioned to you privately that I like the idea of having some sort of two wound IC purchasable 3/slot in elites, maybe make those and your lords the champions struggling on the path to glory, and let squad leaders just be normal squad leaders? I don't know.

Trevak Dal · June 4, 2014

*weeps* Those are the chosen and Khorne Beserkers I want. Seriously, if I could somehow hack into GeeDub's servers and release a "Chaos Space Marines FAQ" that just copy-pasted that chosen and Khorne beserker entries along with a few other instances...It'd be all good in the hood.

Sign In

Reign of Chaos (A Chaos Revamp project)

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Archived

Recently Browsing 0 members

Important Information