Possessed: Making them work

[incinerator950]

Right, important disclaimer, and this is not aimed at certain users, so keep your panties on:  We already know they're not optimal, they're expensive, and there are more efficient options.  Like the other topics, this is to show that you can use them, show who have used them successfully, and what are some fun or useful ways to play them.

 

Topic inspired by the last couple of topics on how to use or what people use on certain units.  Also, Crimson Slaughter is noted for making them troops instead of Elites.

I've heard about the Slaanesh mark with IoE Deathstar, and the LR carried Khornate IoW squad.  I have not personally used them, and would like to hear from those who do/have/mathhammer. 

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

I am also interested in using them. I can see them as possibly a good screen in front of foot slogging large units of CSM. Give them MoK and let them run forward fast. If they live and can eat through a unit then awesome keep them on the objective. If not then hopefully your opponent spent fire shooting at them and not your CSM. Just my idea I have no idea if it will work I don't even have Crimson Slaughter yet (ordered it today) so if anyone has actually run this please let me know how it works out.

[Zhorzh]

 

Also, Crimson Slaughter is noted for making them troops instead of Elites.

 

Their mutation table is also superior.

 

I had an idea of 20 Possessed with Chaos lord that has every CS relic except the Divination one and Cypher, all infiltrating together... Followed by 15 Nurgle Spawn and a Divination Sorc on bike...

[Dark_Apostle_XVII]

As a Word Bearers player, and a very fluff oriented one at that, I feel that Possessed are an almost integral part of my army despite any of the usual complaints so I would be very interested in to get the best out of them (I am new to 6th ed, took a few years out following 5th and recently got back into it so yet to play the new rules as I have been building and painting an army).

 

Anyway, how I plan to run mine is like so:

Squad of 8 (fluff reasons) with Mark of Khorne, 2 gifts of mutation on the champion, veterans of the long war and icon of wrath.

I have looked through the Crimson Slaughter Codex and personally don't rate them as a proxy to Word Bearers - possessed as troops is awesome, but the lack of VOTLW (I like to have for fluff) and the new powers put me off. I think it is great that they make the faster, but I would prefer the more combat oriented powers of the main codex and I make them khorne to increase their potential damage output.

Obviously this is based a lot on my own fluff and preferences and may be far from the best use (having not played) but this is a topic I am interested in greatly due to the significant role possessed play in my army.

[Scribe]

I'm waiting on FW (Gal Vorbak) before I buy possessed.

 

That said, I intend to run them out of Crimson Slaughter as an ally to Daemons, probably marked nurgle if anything, or with a Slaanesh Steed lord and no mark, outflanking.

[Plague Angel]

 

Also, Crimson Slaughter is noted for making them troops instead of Elites.

 

Their mutation table is also superior.

 

Is it really that much better though? Troops is huge, but if someone just wants to add a unit of Possessed to their army and doesn't mind them as Elites, I don't think CS is a requirement.

[GreyCrow]

I'm more of a Marine player, but I can see the Possessed being an interesting addition.

 

I don't think they can be used as a main force compared to the other choices there : they don't have the damage dealing potentiel other units have.

 

However, they do look like a very good tarpit unit against anything that could shoot or CC your other Marines with AP3 weaponry. Because they are already expensive, I'm not sure I would put any Icon on them. I'm not even sure why there are the options for the Tzeench and Nurgle icons, because they have no interest there.

 

In terms of Marks :

- Khorne : Interesting for the threat factor, and it synergizes with all of your mutations, but that'll paint a bigger target on the Possessed, and you have half a chance to get an extra attack anyways

- Tzeench : I would like that combo for tarpitting nasty AP3 units, but it will not protect against the small arms fire

- Nurgle : T5 would be solid for these guys against small arms fire and no AP weapons

- slaanesh : I don't really see much use for this unless you buy the icon of excess, especially due to the fact that you have 1/3 chance of getting its bonus anyways

 

I don't know about the Crimson slaughter, so I can't comment. From what I see, I would go either with the MoN or the MoT, and use them in a supporting role.

 

Put them in a Rhino just for deployment. Move the Rhino 6, disembark 6, run with Fleet. You'll be 6" from the edge of the enemy DZ and likely to place a charge on the next turn. The enemy will have to dedicate some firepower to them, at least. With the 2 marks above, they will have staying power.

What about the unit size ? When used in a support role, it should be proportionate to the rest of your army, so anything in between 5 and 10.

 

If you play with Huron or Ahriman, giving them Infiltrate is a great option as well.

[Zhorzh]

 

 

Also, Crimson Slaughter is noted for making them troops instead of Elites.

 

Their mutation table is also superior.

 

Is it really that much better though?

 

Yeah. The default mutation table only helps them when they're in CC, while the CS mutation table helps them to actually reach CC which is more important + the mutation nr 3 does both.

[Plague Angel]

Yeah, the different tables are an issue of delivery vs. performance once "delivered." A lot of units in the entire game come down to that distinction, really. I suppose I just find it interesting how much Possessed seem to hinge on it.

[totgeboren]

I definitely think the CS table is worse, but I guess having them as Troops should entail a slight nerf (though nerfing one of our weakest units feels rough, even for GW).

The problem with the CS table is that only one out of three results helps them in close combat, and as someone who has used regular codex Possessed quite a few times, the only thing that keeps them floating is that all results on their table buffs them in cc. They are not good in cc, only 'ok', and reducing their chance of being 'ok' all the times for being 'ok' one third of the time is a massive nerf imo.

And what do you get? Beast on models that are already fleet? Granted, getting this result on turn two is great, but that is the only time it's great. One specific turn, and for the rest of the battle this result is basically 'nothing'. And what's worse is that you can't buy them a transport with this table, because if you would get beasts on turn two, and you are stuck in your rhino, you will hate yourself and the game forever.

Shrouded is in a similar position, though a bit worse because possessed are Daemons, and already have a 3+/5++ save. Getting a buffed cover save on top of that does almost nothing, though it helps if you are in a transport, which you won't be, because of the possibility of getting beasts...

Personally I have mainly used MoS Possessed with Icon, a few times in a LR and a few times in a Rhino. Between the 3+/5++ and FnP they are surprisingly resilient, and with Fleet they tend to reach cc on turn two in either case (though it's easier with the LR of course, but they are expensive).

Next battle I think I will try a MoS Lord with Prophet of the Voices and a LC/PF combo, leading a squad of Possessed with MoS and Icon. Expensive as hell, but the Lord might give them some added versatility, and help them in close combat where they will sort of suck because of the new table (seriously, a basic Plague Marine is better in close combat against almost everything than a Possessed). Oh if only I got to keep the old table but use them as Troops.

[Iron_Within]

Make them a mini death star:

 

Land Raider, Possessed, double mutation, Sorcerer with MoN and Terminator armour (if it stretches). Lord.

 

This can easily be represented by the Crimson Slaughter Codex, though personally I wouldn't as the Sorcerer would slow them down (a 12" disembark move would be brilliant and not possible).

 

The Sorcerer is for Buffing and Debuffing, so go for Nurgle and Biomancy, if you're lucky you can get the nurgle de-buff and the Biomancy de-buff to T (Enfeeble?). If you are using the Crimson Slaughter rules and they get Beast Movement then you can conga line your movement to guarantee you get into combat (even with the Sorc who can only move 6").

 

The combination of de-buffs and hoping you roll well on the mutation table can turn the champion into a monster. Having fought against this combi it was painful; my lord and unit were reduced to T4 (Nurgle Bikers) and had their S reduced to 3. Meanwhile his Champion had two wounds and shred, which he used to butcher successive champions (gaining more rewards).

[Dam13n]

a 12" disembark move would be brilliant

 

A 12" disembark is never possible - see page 79 of the BRB.

- A disembarking model must end it's move within 6" of the access point disembarked from (any excess move is lost).

 

So the sorcerer in terminator armour is unlikely to slow them down at all when disembarking. He'll just prevent them from sweeping enemies.

He will slow them down when foot-slogging.  But seeing as they'll be unlikely to survive foot-slogging across the battlefield anyway, that's not much of an issue IMO.

 

If you're going Possessed from CS then the attached CS character ideally should have the Voices upgrade so he benefits from the same roll on the mutation chart.

[battle captain corpus]

I also vote in favour of using a delivery system. Foot slogging, unless you have a plethora of terrain, can be damaging to their unit size.

 

You kind of need possessed to punch home fully loaded if you can! So Land Raider is a current tool to take!

 

BCC :D

[incinerator950]

I definitely think the CS table is worse, but I guess having them as Troops should entail a slight nerf (though nerfing one of our weakest units feels rough, even for GW).

The problem with the CS table is that only one out of three results helps them in close combat, and as someone who has used regular codex Possessed quite a few times, the only thing that keeps them floating is that all results on their table buffs them in cc. They are not good in cc, only 'ok', and reducing their chance of being 'ok' all the times for being 'ok' one third of the time is a massive nerf imo.

And what do you get? Beast on models that are already fleet? Granted, getting this result on turn two is great, but that is the only time it's great. One specific turn, and for the rest of the battle this result is basically 'nothing'. And what's worse is that you can't buy them a transport with this table, because if you would get beasts on turn two, and you are stuck in your rhino, you will hate yourself and the game forever.

Shrouded is in a similar position, though a bit worse because possessed are Daemons, and already have a 3+/5++ save. Getting a buffed cover save on top of that does almost nothing, though it helps if you are in a transport, which you won't be, because of the possibility of getting beasts...

Personally I have mainly used MoS Possessed with Icon, a few times in a LR and a few times in a Rhino. Between the 3+/5++ and FnP they are surprisingly resilient, and with Fleet they tend to reach cc on turn two in either case (though it's easier with the LR of course, but they are expensive).

Next battle I think I will try a MoS Lord with Prophet of the Voices and a LC/PF combo, leading a squad of Possessed with MoS and Icon. Expensive as hell, but the Lord might give them some added versatility, and help them in close combat where they will sort of suck because of the new table (seriously, a basic Plague Marine is better in close combat against almost everything than a Possessed). Oh if only I got to keep the old table but use them as Troops.

Actually, I agree with you. I only mention CS simply for the HQ attachment to Possessed and becoming a troops choice. However, after debating with my sanity over it, I decided it may be better to not use them as troops simply because you want them to:

• Tarpit
• Kill everything they can
• Infiltrate

Being cappers for scoring nulls their use unless you need a unit to overtake a objective. Personally I'm trying to figure out what's a semi-efficient, cheap way to keep their numbers down so you can viably use them for troops, or use them as their regular Elite package.

[Smurfalypse]

I have only used them three times but it was in combination with the Daemons Codex, and while I did go 3-0 with them, they were all slow grinding wins.

 

Basically ran something like this.

Karios

Herald of Tzeentch w/ML3, Exaulted Gift (Portaglyph)

Herald of Tzeentch w/ML3, Exaulted Gift (Grimoire)

 

Daemonettes x20

Plaguebearers x20

Horrors x20

 

Crimson Slaughter

Chaos Lord w/Horns of Slaughter, Daemonheart, Blade of the Relentless, Prophet, Melta Bombs, Bike, Mark of Nurgle

 

Possessed x16

 

That was pretty much it. Basically I just would buff the Possessed and move them to the middle of the board, to control that area with them and soak as much fire as possible. Usually they ended up with a 2+ Invuln Save due to either their chart+Grimoire or Forwarning+Grimoire, so they soaked pretty darned good. I think I also gave them Mark of Nurgle, but it has been a couple of months since I ran it so I could be mistaken.

 

The Plaguebearers and Daemonettes usually deepstriked to help support or to corral the opponent to get closer to my Possessed. I do have to admit, when they hit something it usually popped. Played against Serpent Spam and was able to win that out pretty easily (though it was a bit slower than I expected) and I also played against Beast-Star who it :cuss stomped as their Deathstar did not hold up against the Possessed. The Horrors also help a ton with their Str6 shooting, I can usually pump out 8D6 per turn with the unit and Heralds, add in Prescience and it gets pretty deadly. I usually kept the Horrors just behind the Possessed so they could protect each other, Heralds would buff the Possessed and the Possessed would counter attack anything that jumped into CC with the Horrors. 

 

Wasn't the best list ever, but it tended to grind out victories pretty easily with few casualties. Most games I would have 10-12 Possessed left + Lord, most of my Horrors and Heralds,  Plaguebearers and Daemonettes would take minor casualties but usually kill 2 or 3 times their points cost worth of stuff due to having free rein over the board. The other key part was Karios, he was there 100% just for the reroll, often times I would just fly him off the board and call it a day to keep him safe. Between rerolling the Grimoire when needed and rerolling the Portaglyph I would end up with two through four extra small scoring units over the course of the game. 

 

Just my experience.

[crucial]

I have only used them three times but it was in combination with the Daemons Codex, and while I did go 3-0 with them, they were all slow grinding wins.

 

Basically ran something like this.

Karios

Herald of Tzeentch w/ML3, Exaulted Gift (Portaglyph)

Herald of Tzeentch w/ML3, Exaulted Gift (Grimoire)

 

Daemonettes x20

Plaguebearers x20

Horrors x20

 

Crimson Slaughter

Chaos Lord w/Horns of Slaughter, Daemonheart, Blade of the Relentless, Prophet, Melta Bombs, Bike, Mark of Nurgle

 

Possessed x16

 

That was pretty much it. Basically I just would buff the Possessed and move them to the middle of the board, to control that area with them and soak as much fire as possible. Usually they ended up with a 2+ Invuln Save due to either their chart+Grimoire or Forwarning+Grimoire, so they soaked pretty darned good. I think I also gave them Mark of Nurgle, but it has been a couple of months since I ran it so I could be mistaken.

 

The Plaguebearers and Daemonettes usually deepstriked to help support or to corral the opponent to get closer to my Possessed. I do have to admit, when they hit something it usually popped. Played against Serpent Spam and was able to win that out pretty easily (though it was a bit slower than I expected) and I also played against Beast-Star who it :cuss stomped as their Deathstar did not hold up against the Possessed. The Horrors also help a ton with their Str6 shooting, I can usually pump out 8D6 per turn with the unit and Heralds, add in Prescience and it gets pretty deadly. I usually kept the Horrors just behind the Possessed so they could protect each other, Heralds would buff the Possessed and the Possessed would counter attack anything that jumped into CC with the Horrors.

 

Wasn't the best list ever, but it tended to grind out victories pretty easily with few casualties. Most games I would have 10-12 Possessed left + Lord, most of my Horrors and Heralds, Plaguebearers and Daemonettes would take minor casualties but usually kill 2 or 3 times their points cost worth of stuff due to having free rein over the board. The other key part was Karios, he was there 100% just for the reroll, often times I would just fly him off the board and call it a day to keep him safe. Between rerolling the Grimoire when needed and rerolling the Portaglyph I would end up with two through four extra small scoring units over the course of the game.

 

Just my experience.

Sounds interesting stuff. Does the biker lord join the possessed or go by himself?

 

Also what points is this?

[Zhukov]

 

 

 However, after debating with my sanity over it, I decided it may be better to not use them as troops simply because you want them to:

• Tarpit
• Kill everything they can
• Infiltrate

Being cappers for scoring nulls their use unless you need a unit to overtake a objective.

No offense, but this is fallacious. Being troops or not (ignoring the table) does not effect whether you can Tarpit/Kill/Infiltrate. Just because your unit scores, doesn't mean you can only use them to cap objectives. If the choice is a non-scoring or a scoring unit, other things equal, then the scoring unit is strictly superior by virtue of having the ability to score (whether you use that ability or not).

 

Aside from that, having troops to claim far objectives (I assume that is what you mean with overtaking an objective) is one of the thing CSM struggles most with. Possessed being Fearless and Fast, they are actually decent at this. Not as good as taking Daemon Allies, but better than what the CSM dex otherwise can offer.

 

On the matter which table is better, I cannot see how the CS able isn't simply better. While the regular table gives garuanteed offensive bonuses, they lack the truly important one, which the CS table can give you, rending. Regular possessed cannot harm 2+ save models well nor anything above armour 11 (apart from FC to bring them up to S6, but that's dependant on a lot of factors.)

 

I was lucky to buy 10 possessed at a huge discount lately, so I'll try them out in a bit, possibly some tournaments. I can see how they match well with Divination, re-roll to hit is very nice for them and Forewarning can be great as well. It gives greater incentive to run MoN on them.

 

Biggest issue for me remains that Daemonettes are so much better while doing pretty much the same thing. You have almost 3 Daemonettes for the price of 1 Possessed. They are a decent retinue for a Lord/Sorcerer though, one of the better options, but not when compared to Spawn so hmm. I dunno, I'll try to see if there are builds where I feel they aren't weakening the list.

[Spaz431]

I have used that lord in a squad with 5 nurgle bikes to give him ablative wounds, he got across the table and proceeded to wreck.

Back on subject, I have used the new possessed rules, and honestly love them. Max I can move a foot slog unit (yes I leave them on the ground) is 18" to a minimum of 7 with possible 4++ to possibly 2++ (grimoire) or possibly shrouded. It is dirty, but they have done well against a strong Nids player in my area. They forced a DEldar player to really consider where his shooting was going to go. I tend to use a group of 6 MoN. As previously stated by another, it comes down to delivery into CC or performance in CC. With the name of the current game being shooting, most armies cannot handle CC. And the main armies taken now are tau eldar and IG, fear can screw up their days.

[incinerator950]

 

 

 

 However, after debating with my sanity over it, I decided it may be better to not use them as troops simply because you want them to:

• Tarpit
• Kill everything they can
• Infiltrate

Being cappers for scoring nulls their use unless you need a unit to overtake a objective.

No offense, but this is fallacious. Being troops or not (ignoring the table) does not effect whether you can Tarpit/Kill/Infiltrate. Just because your unit scores, doesn't mean you can only use them to cap objectives. If the choice is a non-scoring or a scoring unit, other things equal, then the scoring unit is strictly superior by virtue of having the ability to score (whether you use that ability or not).

 

Aside from that, having troops to claim far objectives (I assume that is what you mean with overtaking an objective) is one of the thing CSM struggles most with. Possessed being Fearless and Fast, they are actually decent at this. Not as good as taking Daemon Allies, but better than what the CSM dex otherwise can offer.

 

Well, it's not equal if you don't choose to use them to score.  The nature of choice thing and all that.  By that very nature they would be useful in the senses, but I think their Elite counterparts would be a more useful combatant unless you're breaching to score and get a lot of rending, that would be more valuable in a broad generalist sense.   The other hand is scoring units are more beneficial, but then we're breaching the topic of what else to use besides their support/supporting them.

 

The circular logic is another symptom of my madness.

[incinerator950]

On a coherent note:  What would be a useful but cost effective lay-out of Possessed, and how would you combine it with a HQ (say Lord) with Prophet of the Voices?

[Trevak Dal]

Crimson Slaughter as primary, take 20 Possessed, mark of the Fat Lazy :cuss and put them out in front of your army and march them up the table.

 

People have hard times killing hordes of t3 guys.  What about t5 guys with an invulnerable save?

[Sception]

Cost is an issue.  Durability isn't measured in wounds/unit, it's measured in wounds/point.  People have hard times killing hordes of T3 guys because hordes of T3 guys are cheap, so theres either 6+ times as many of them as there are of your possessed, or 3+ times as many, plus a bunch of extra stuff alongside them that is all far killier than your possessed as well.

 

I think if you want to make possessed work as well as possible, a big unit with daemon allies for the grimoire as discussed above is the way to go, but even then it's still pretty forced, because if you're doing grimoire then you could have used it on screamers instead, and I have a hard time imagining possessed comparing all that well to screamers in that sort of roll.  I guess they can take some killier characters?  I don't know.  But if I really wanted to use possessed (or warp talons, for that matter), that's what I'd do.

[Smurfalypse]

 

I have only used them three times but it was in combination with the Daemons Codex, and while I did go 3-0 with them, they were all slow grinding wins.

 

Basically ran something like this.

Karios

Herald of Tzeentch w/ML3, Exaulted Gift (Portaglyph)

Herald of Tzeentch w/ML3, Exaulted Gift (Grimoire)

 

Daemonettes x20

Plaguebearers x20

Horrors x20

 

Crimson Slaughter

Chaos Lord w/Horns of Slaughter, Daemonheart, Blade of the Relentless, Prophet, Melta Bombs, Bike, Mark of Nurgle

 

Possessed x16

 

That was pretty much it. Basically I just would buff the Possessed and move them to the middle of the board, to control that area with them and soak as much fire as possible. Usually they ended up with a 2+ Invuln Save due to either their chart+Grimoire or Forwarning+Grimoire, so they soaked pretty darned good. I think I also gave them Mark of Nurgle, but it has been a couple of months since I ran it so I could be mistaken.

 

The Plaguebearers and Daemonettes usually deepstriked to help support or to corral the opponent to get closer to my Possessed. I do have to admit, when they hit something it usually popped. Played against Serpent Spam and was able to win that out pretty easily (though it was a bit slower than I expected) and I also played against Beast-Star who it :cuss stomped as their Deathstar did not hold up against the Possessed. The Horrors also help a ton with their Str6 shooting, I can usually pump out 8D6 per turn with the unit and Heralds, add in Prescience and it gets pretty deadly. I usually kept the Horrors just behind the Possessed so they could protect each other, Heralds would buff the Possessed and the Possessed would counter attack anything that jumped into CC with the Horrors.

 

Wasn't the best list ever, but it tended to grind out victories pretty easily with few casualties. Most games I would have 10-12 Possessed left + Lord, most of my Horrors and Heralds, Plaguebearers and Daemonettes would take minor casualties but usually kill 2 or 3 times their points cost worth of stuff due to having free rein over the board. The other key part was Karios, he was there 100% just for the reroll, often times I would just fly him off the board and call it a day to keep him safe. Between rerolling the Grimoire when needed and rerolling the Portaglyph I would end up with two through four extra small scoring units over the course of the game.

 

Just my experience.

Sounds interesting stuff. Does the biker lord join the possessed or go by himself?

 

Also what points is this?

 

He joined the Possessed, I use the Bike so that he can be a threat to MCs. Otherwise they just smash him out of the game. Also it would allow me to break off from the unit and go off on his own for a turn if I needed to contest or assualt something the unit may not be able to reach.

 

Was 1850pt list.

[Smurfalypse]

Cost is an issue.  Durability isn't measured in wounds/unit, it's measured in wounds/point.  People have hard times killing hordes of T3 guys because hordes of T3 guys are cheap, so theres either 6+ times as many of them as there are of your possessed, or 3+ times as many, plus a bunch of extra stuff alongside them that is all far killier than your possessed as well.

 

I think if you want to make possessed work as well as possible, a big unit with daemon allies for the grimoire as discussed above is the way to go, but even then it's still pretty forced, because if you're doing grimoire then you could have used it on screamers instead, and I have a hard time imagining possessed comparing all that well to screamers in that sort of roll.  I guess they can take some killier characters?  I don't know.  But if I really wanted to use possessed (or warp talons, for that matter), that's what I'd do.

 

You getting into the realm of Screamer-Star which is to be honest a lacking death star. The lack of hit&run is a huge issue for them, also they cost most as a unit than any of the other death stars. Truth be told, Screamer-Star is boarderline bad overall.

[Forté]

I quite like the MoS on everything. Nice going first in close combat over other Marines. Shove a Lord on a steed with them and you have a fast outflanking troop squad too.