Possessed: Making them work

[Sception]

 

Cost is an issue.  Durability isn't measured in wounds/unit, it's measured in wounds/point.  People have hard times killing hordes of T3 guys because hordes of T3 guys are cheap, so theres either 6+ times as many of them as there are of your possessed, or 3+ times as many, plus a bunch of extra stuff alongside them that is all far killier than your possessed as well.

 

I think if you want to make possessed work as well as possible, a big unit with daemon allies for the grimoire as discussed above is the way to go, but even then it's still pretty forced, because if you're doing grimoire then you could have used it on screamers instead, and I have a hard time imagining possessed comparing all that well to screamers in that sort of roll.  I guess they can take some killier characters?  I don't know.  But if I really wanted to use possessed (or warp talons, for that matter), that's what I'd do.

 

You getting into the realm of Screamer-Star which is to be honest a lacking death star. The lack of hit&run is a huge issue for them, also they cost most as a unit than any of the other death stars. Truth be told, Screamer-Star is boarderline bad overall.

 

Possessed also lack hit and run, and cost a ton.

[Zhukov]

Well, it's not equal if you don't choose to use them to score.  The nature of choice thing and all that. 

?

 

 

By that very nature they would be useful in the senses, but I think

their Elite counterparts would be a more useful combatant unless you're

breaching to score and get a lot of rending, that would be more valuable

in a broad generalist sense.   The other hand is scoring units are more

beneficial, but then we're breaching the topic of what else to use

besides their support/supporting them.

 

The circular logic is another symptom of my madness.

This isn't circular logic, or if it is then it's because your logic failed somewhere along the road. Either you say you value scoring more than the regular table, or in reverse, or you value them both equal in which case you are indifferent between Possessed as elite or CS troops.

 

I value the CS table more than the regular table and thus the matter of scoring versus table doesn't even come into play for me.

[incinerator950]

Cost

is an issue.  Durability isn't measured in wounds/unit, it's measured

in wounds/point.  People have hard times killing hordes of T3 guys

because hordes of T3 guys are cheap, so theres either 6+ times as many

of them as there are of your possessed, or 3+ times as many, plus a

bunch of extra stuff alongside them that is all far killier than your

possessed as well.

 

I think if you want to make

possessed work as well as possible, a big unit with daemon allies for

the grimoire as discussed above is the way to go, but even then it's

still pretty forced, because if you're doing grimoire then you could

have used it on screamers instead, and I have a hard time imagining

possessed comparing all that well to screamers in that sort of roll.  I

guess they can take some killier characters?  I don't know.  But if I

really wanted to use possessed (or warp talons, for that matter), that's

what I'd do.

 

I see.  What is the smallest functional unit of Possessed you can take, seeing as how 10+ is the way to go with the majority of people. 

[Smurfalypse]

 

 

Cost is an issue.  Durability isn't measured in wounds/unit, it's measured in wounds/point.  People have hard times killing hordes of T3 guys because hordes of T3 guys are cheap, so theres either 6+ times as many of them as there are of your possessed, or 3+ times as many, plus a bunch of extra stuff alongside them that is all far killier than your possessed as well.

 

I think if you want to make possessed work as well as possible, a big unit with daemon allies for the grimoire as discussed above is the way to go, but even then it's still pretty forced, because if you're doing grimoire then you could have used it on screamers instead, and I have a hard time imagining possessed comparing all that well to screamers in that sort of roll.  I guess they can take some killier characters?  I don't know.  But if I really wanted to use possessed (or warp talons, for that matter), that's what I'd do.

 

You getting into the realm of Screamer-Star which is to be honest a lacking death star. The lack of hit&run is a huge issue for them, also they cost most as a unit than any of the other death stars. Truth be told, Screamer-Star is boarderline bad overall.

 

Possessed also lack hit and run, and cost a ton.

 

Indeed they do, but they score and hit infinitely harder in close combat than Screamers. Also, model for model they cost about the same, the only real difference is one you can take as a unit of 9 max and the other a unit of 20 max. 

 

Indeed Possessed lack hit and run, but they can actually take other units in melee making it much less of an issue. Screamers are pretty weak vs anything that can take a punch and have no real option for character support in there, while the Possessed can roll with a Sorcerer or tricked out Lord.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Screamers, I just think comparing them to Possessed is apples vs oranges as they have very different builds and in game they would have very different strategic goals. 

 

 

Cost

is an issue.  Durability isn't measured in wounds/unit, it's measured

in wounds/point.  People have hard times killing hordes of T3 guys

because hordes of T3 guys are cheap, so theres either 6+ times as many

of them as there are of your possessed, or 3+ times as many, plus a

bunch of extra stuff alongside them that is all far killier than your

possessed as well.

 

I think if you want to make

possessed work as well as possible, a big unit with daemon allies for

the grimoire as discussed above is the way to go, but even then it's

still pretty forced, because if you're doing grimoire then you could

have used it on screamers instead, and I have a hard time imagining

possessed comparing all that well to screamers in that sort of roll.  I

guess they can take some killier characters?  I don't know.  But if I

really wanted to use possessed (or warp talons, for that matter), that's

what I'd do.

 

I see.  What is the smallest functional unit of Possessed you can take, seeing as how 10+ is the way to go with the majority of people. 

 

Personally to this, I would say you go large or you go home. Just my limited experience with them.

[totgeboren]

We will see with 7ed, but in 6ed close combat units need to be big or don't bother, meaning Possessed are forced to run around 10-ish strong at the very least.

[Dallas Drake]

We all know the problems with Possessed, but Possessed as troops changes the ball game for me completely. Crimson Slaughter might dull their melee potential but it makes them either 1) quicker 2) get a better invul/more killy 3) get a better cover save - all of these things are things they need and in a game where Land Raiders are a points sink and Rhinos pretty rubbish I'm fine with that. Sticking the MoK & IoF on them pretty much gives them all you need - wounding GEQs & MEQs on a 2+ and if you get rending then that's just sauce. Can't really go wrong with MoN or MoS either although I prefer MoK. As troops you just don't have to get them into melee all the time for them to prove their worth, not much is going to want to charge them that wouldn't kill MEQs anyway and since they score they can sit on an objective or control an area of the board. Not cheap, but fun.

 

I swear by them, lead them with a CS Sorcerer and back them up with bikes, Oblits and multiple 10 man Cultist units.

[incinerator950]

7th boys and girls.

 

Anyone try anything new? Cursed Earth souns fun but how about Prophet Lords?

[Rayray]

I have used the possessed as shock troops (C:CS) in 4 different games. The biggest game was against Tau. I continuously rolled 5's and 6's on their chart, allowing them to soak so much firepower that the tau player could only stare in amazement as I locked his riptides down with my single unit before killing them. That aside, using the possessed sorcerer along with a unit of horrors was nasty and fun for summoning lesser daemons onto the tau player. I practically dictated his shots by using the summoned daemons, a bloodthirster with the grimoire,  and possessed.

[Zhukov]

7th boys and girls.

 

Anyone try anything new? Cursed Earth souns fun but how about Prophet Lords?

Yes I'm trying something new: Making Possessed my main troop choice and possibly going to try and win tournaments with it ;) Prophet Sorcerer included to summon some Daemonettes or Plaguebearers and, if I get it, improving the invul save of my troops and Maulers with Cursed earth. Will be for later though, it's summer here.

 

Prophet Lords... I'm not a fan. I want my Lord on a bike with Mark of Nurgle. Prophet upgrade makes it so that he can only join Possessed, which doesn't work smoothly. He could go off on his own but meh.

[Dallas Drake]

Crimson Slaughter Prophet Lords no, but Prophet Sorcerers yes. However, I've not been blown away by Malefic aside from Cursed Earth which is amazing. All in all I would rather take Be'Lakor or roll on Telepathy.

 

For all their problems & detractors, I think CS Possessed are/can be one of the quickest/most resilient troop choices that CSM have. Yeah, they're costed wrong and sorely lack assault grenades but you're still getting a bunch of good options (MEQ with fearless, fleet, daemon & either: shrouded, beasts, or 3++ and rending). Plus if they're assaulting with other units then there are ways to make it work.

 

Currently I've had to drop my Possessed because my regular opponents want to play 1250pts to learn 7th (they're slow) but I've used them in several games as a blob deathstar and they did well.

 

Now I'm thinking that they could maybe be better used as smaller units, maybe 6-8 models with no marks (keeps them in the 156-208 point range which whilst still too expensive isn't too bad actually). Use them to run up flanks, kill GEQs/MEQs, assault with other units, or tie up units you don't want to move or shoot. As CS Possessed are OS Troops they can contest/push units off objectives too. I can definitely imagine getting beasts a few times & getting them in around the enemies deployment area & taking out other MSUs or heavy support options.

 

I also see them being used in a list with lots of threats going forward: Maulerfiends, bikes, Daemons, Spawn etc. As a reasonably resilient and fast troops option the sky is the limit really but I definitely think I'll try them as a MSU instead of deathstar next time I play 1500 or 2000 points.

 

It's just a crying shame they don't have Scout, Infiltrate or Outflank, obviously the GW games designers haven't read the Word Bearers omnibus :p

 

Dallas

[incinerator950]

Can you still takea Slaaneshi steed lord with outflank?

[Dallas Drake]

Can you still takea Slaaneshi steed lord with outflank?

Yeah, I assume so.

[incinerator950]

That's worth a ponder.

[Dallas Drake]

The Slaanesh Lord is a bit weak though. I think I'd rather Outflank 10-20 Slaanesh CSMs with dual Melta.

 

That said, the Slaanesh Lord could be a conversion, like a super Possessed dude. You could use the new Champion model and a Ravener tail to make a nice conversion there.

D

[incinerator950]

My army already has a mayhem pack. Truthfully I'm sorta digging the concept of a seeker prophet lord with possessed. It won't be the most killy, but it sounds fun. Well that or I may as well use spawn, but I'd rather have Nurgle spawn.

[Castigator]

Crimson Slaughter Possessed with the Mark of Tzeentch could prove useful. A 33% chance for a 2+ invulnerable is not to be sniffed at, a bit pricey but they could be nasty with a Tzeentch Lord on a Disc with Daemonheart.

[Prot]

In seventh, I thought that if the vehicle did not move,I could get out and move as not. So I guess I screwed that up....got too used to marine drop pods for transports!!!

 

IDK if this is explicitly a 7th ed thrread, but a land raider is even a bit better and no one has mentioned how nice having a shrouded landfaider can be.... Charging that thing straight up causes your opponents' to really panic sometimes giving your maulerfiends a free turn.

[the jeske]

Crimson Slaughter Possessed with the Mark of Tzeentch could prove useful. A 33% chance for a 2+ invulnerable is not to be sniffed at, a bit pricey but they could be nasty with a Tzeentch Lord on a Disc with Daemonheart.

you can't have ++2 with MoT , the MoT is worded in a such a way.

[Castigator]

Everyday's a school day, I never noticed that ......then again I play exclusively with Slaanesh.

[Dorrance]

but a land raider is even a bit better and no one has mentioned how nice having a shrouded landfaider can be.... Charging that thing straight up causes your opponents' to really panic sometimes giving your maulerfiends a free turn.

I have been kicking this idea around with battlescribe... Arguments against it are that

 

1) you are wasting 2/3 of the rolls while mounted

2) if they are with a Prophet Sorcerer he can't cast

3) lots of points and it takes away a sport for mauler fiends

 

What I have deduced:

 

1) true but they will be delivered as a hole unit and have mobility options post first assault

2) true but this would be a good option for your second squad of possesed

3) Spartan Assault Tank: now I am wasting more points but damn is that a fine death machine, one of the few units that can be used in a real life assault phase.

 

Hopefully I can get some more ideas posted on my old black legion thread but if supplemented correctly possessed as troops can "work" and the more I think about it the better land raiders sound...

[bozo69pd]

I like using Belakor daemon primary with as many nurglings as I can fit for cheap scoring, Prophet nurgle sorc with biomancy and blight grenades on a full squad of possessed of nurgle. I have bel keep them invisible and hopefully the sorc gets some great biomancy powers then charge them right up the middle at the big threats while my scouting nurglings tie up their shooting.

 

Then depending on points I have as many nurgle SG as possible with phlegm hiding in ruins. So good. Maybe some melta bikers and/or oblits.

[Dallas Drake]

I think that with the CS table you're best running them on foot. All 3 rolls improve them on foot & paying all those points for a LR just seems mad. Assault vehicles are great but I can't justify the points on a unit that doesn't have assault grenades & has a 1/3 chance of moving 12" and running.

 

Personally, the only unit I'd put in a LR would be 9 x MoK Chosen with a few toys and a MoK Lord with whatever nasty option I had available (AoBF or Relentless Sword).

 

Edit: the key to making CS Possessed work is not sinking too many points into them. You can run them 15 strong if you want & throw Invisibility onto them, I've done this several times and it works, but don't revolve your entire list around the one unit. As already pointed out they lack certain criteria to make effective uber death stars (Hit and Run, assault grenades & not enough attacks are the big 3 for me). Have alternative theats that also benefit from Invisability or Shrouded (Maulerfiends, Spawn, Bikes, Daemons etc). In an assault list 10 man units of Possessed without any upgrades aren't bad. They're Fearless & can beat up other troops (and elites). I'm quite taken by Noise Marines right now but next time I take them I plan to try them as MSU or multiples of 7-10 depending on points.

[Lord Asvaldir]

What I'm wondering though, rhinoes or just on foot? Rhino means they'll get some protection against small arms fire and move faster, but on the other hand it means they can't assault until the turn after they disembark which I see as being a problem. I'm thinking I might try 5-8 on foot, throw them on a flank and see how they do. At least with fleet they'll probably be moving 10"-11" a turn. 

[Dallas Drake]

What I'm wondering though, rhinoes or just on foot? Rhino means they'll get some protection against small arms fire and move faster, but on the other hand it means they can't assault until the turn after they disembark which I see as being a problem. I'm thinking I might try 5-8 on foot, throw them on a flank and see how they do. At least with fleet they'll probably be moving 10"-11" a turn. 

 

Definitely not Rhinos for me. As you correctly identified the 'no assaulting out of a transport' issue makes Rhinos a bad choice.

[Prot]

What I'm wondering though, rhinoes or just on foot? Rhino means they'll get some protection against small arms fire and move faster, but on the other hand it means they can't assault until the turn after they disembark which I see as being a problem. I'm thinking I might try 5-8 on foot, throw them on a flank and see how they do. At least with fleet they'll probably be moving 10"-11" a turn. 

 

Why be so stringent about it? Instead be flexible.

 

What I do is take the rhino, see what my opponent is playing, then make the decision to get in, or stay out of the Rhino. The additional consideration is Crimson Slaughter make them troops so the Rhino is an automatic (if not in Landraider) to get  Super Scoring, cheap vehicle which I find nearly mandatory in an expensive, elite style list.

 

Just because you buy the Rhino doesn't mean you're handcuffed to the steering wheel. :)

 

Against... let's say IG, or Necrons, there's no way in heck you are going to stroll up to them. In fact the Rhino won't make it either, but at least you might get a turn of a Shrouded ride, or perhaps make it there with one turn of protection. Against assaultier armies? You can run behind, you can split the ride and possessed up, etc.