Horus Heresy Book 3, some Space Wolf tidbits

[Vash113]

I just got finished reading the Horus Heresy Book 3 and surprisingly there were a few little interesting Space Wolf nuggets in there.

 

Firstly it's established that the VI Legion (Space Wolves), XVIII Legion (Salamanders) and XX Legion (Alpha Legion), were all developed and trained in isolation from the other proto-legions and rumored to have been developed for a specific purpose. This further cements the idea that the Space Wolves were the Emperor's executioners against the other legiones and it opens some questions as to what the purpose of the Salamanders might have been. 

 

Secondly the book indicates that the VI Legion had significant difficulties during the escalation of gene-seed implementation. The initial proto-legion was apparently a success but growing the proto-legion into full strength saw significant difficulties until the Gene-Labs of Luna were captured and put to use. Also apparently the VI were not alone in these problems but it's not specified which other legions had similar difficulties. This adds tangential support to the idea that the Terran Legionaries had a harder time adapting to the Space Wolves gene-seed than the later Fenresian recruits or at the very least that the Space Wolves gene-seed was more difficult to implement than others, perhaps giving an answer as to how and why the Wolf Brothers failed.

 

Lastly there's a small bit of information regarding the Assault on Gate 42, an incident involving the Raven Guard. During the war council between Horus, Perturabo, Corax and Leman Russ the Raven Guard Primarch gave reservations about the XIX Legion engaging in a direct assault and drew ire from Perturabo who essentially called Corax a coward. The two would have come to blows had not Leman Russ intervened as a mediator (Imagine that!) and counseled Corax to take the assignment and do it regardless of his reservations. The idea that in a heated scenario it was Leman Russ who was the peacemaker... wow.

 

Anyway just some stuff I noticed in Book 3.

[Scyld Fireblade]

I just got finished reading the Horus Heresy Book 3 and surprisingly there were a few little interesting Space Wolf nuggets in there.

 

Firstly it's established that the VI Legion (Space Wolves), XVIII Legion (Salamanders) and XX Legion (Alpha Legion), were all developed and trained in isolation from the other proto-legions and rumored to have been developed for a specific purpose. This further cements the idea that the Space Wolves were the Emperor's executioners against the other legiones and it opens some questions as to what the purpose of the Salamanders might have been. 

 

Secondly the book indicates that the VI Legion had significant difficulties during the escalation of gene-seed implementation. The initial proto-legion was apparently a success but growing the proto-legion into full strength saw significant difficulties until the Gene-Labs of Luna were captured and put to use. Also apparently the VI were not alone in these problems but it's not specified which other legions had similar difficulties. This adds tangential support to the idea that the Terran Legionaries had a harder time adapting to the Space Wolves gene-seed than the later Fenresian recruits or at the very least that the Space Wolves gene-seed was more difficult to implement than others, perhaps giving an answer as to how and why the Wolf Brothers failed.

 

Lastly there's a small bit of information regarding the Assault on Gate 42, an incident involving the Raven Guard. During the war council between Horus, Perturabo, Corax and Leman Russ the Raven Guard Primarch gave reservations about the XIX Legion engaging in a direct assault and drew ire from Perturabo who essentially called Corax a coward. The two would have come to blows had not Leman Russ intervened as a mediator (Imagine that!) and counseled Corax to take the assignment and do it regardless of his reservations. The idea that in a heated scenario it was Leman Russ who was the peacemaker... wow.

 

Anyway just some stuff I noticed in Book 3.

The Space Wolves are also mentioned to be one of the more substantially sized legions alongside the Sons of Horus (170k) and the Iron Warriors (180k).

[logun]

i'm certainly not a big fluff reader, but i had thought and heard that the wolves were always one of the smaller legions due to the gene seed issues and Leman Russ's high standards when recruiting. and this kind of made sense when they only split in half after that whole mess with Horus and co.

[Scyld Fireblade]

i'm certainly not a big fluff reader, but i had thought and heard that the wolves were always one of the smaller legions due to the gene seed issues and Leman Russ's high standards when recruiting. and this kind of made sense when they only split in half after that whole mess with Horus and co.

That was back in 2nd ed. SW fluff is getting heavily retconned. FW HH3 says they were a "substantial" legion. They also did not necessarily split in half later. Russ evaded/defied Guiliman's order to split the legions. Russ split the SW into the Great Companies, but since they were already semi-autonomous and the various jarls answered only to Russ anyway, nothing really changed. The creation of the Wolf Brothers is described in the Battle of the Fang as a separate event. It was Russ' idea to surround the Eye of Terror with a permanent guard of marines. Russ wanted them all to be SW. The Wolf Brothers were the first such force. Since we know something catastrophic happened to the Wolf Brothers that part of the plan fell through, but the core of the plan was kept and 20 chapters from the other legions formed the permanent guards around the eye.

[Grey Mage]

We didnt even split in half, we let go one great company, and it was chapter sized.

The great companies may have gotten smaller over the millenia, which is fitting with the dystopia.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Plus you have to be subtle if you're using the Codex as toilet paper, the Astral Claws found that out the hard way. Couldn't maintain a dozen Great Companies, each at Chapter strength or larger, operating out of the Aett without someone eventually noticing, so the Companies would've had to shrink somewhat over time. But who knows how many 'Lost' Companies there are out there .

[Reede]

I'm glad to see the Wolves get some acknowledgement now in the HH books. Though I'm greatly saddened that the current rumors are saying Prospero won't be the next book but rather involve either the Blood Angels or Ultramarines. It really is too bad as I'm insanely excited for some of the possibilities, one being a Space Wolves Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought Chassis, and the likelihood of a Flesh and Blood Bjorn just get's me all tingly.

[Brother Rylanor]

The idea of a flesh and blood Bjorn would be amazing or any character for that matter.

 

they really do need to print the HH books quicker.

 

much appreciated for the info above Vash.

 

Rylanor.

[Rift Blade]

Yes it would be nice if they made the HH books quicker but I'm hopeful that if they are pushing things back for the Wolves, it will mean they are going to make it comparable to the rest of the HH stuff so far. For the most part I've been impressed with what they have done so I'll wait.

[Brother Rylanor]

Do we think then, that if they're holding off on our beloved chapter, they are likely to re-work some of our fluff?

 

I can't remember if stuff printed by FW or BL becomes law, or is it only stuff printed by GW it's self? I know that they are sub entities of GW.

 

Also I'm sure I've seen somewhere a reading list for all things Space Wolf, but for the life of me I can't remember where. I thought we had one in this forum?

[Leif Bearclaw]

Well, according to some rumours on the site, the delay is due to the Custodes and Sisters of Silence not being ready. I doubt FW will be retconning the VI fluff already established in the HH novels.

[MaveriK]

To be honest I'd rather have FW take their time on the book and the models that come with them. Better to get it right and have them do justice, than to rush things and overlook things in the process.

[Reede]

Aye, I'll certainly agree with you there MaveriK. Still, I'd like to at least hear something. It's getting tiring to see our Blood Drinking breatheren push ahead of us in 30 and 40k. 

[Marshal Rohr]

As the Heresy books go along you can see the Emperor had a 'trifecta' of Primarchs besides Horus he relied on heavily, Russ being the First, Sanguinius the Second, and Dorn the Third. Which makes sense because Russ spent the most time with the Emperor besides Horus, and was clearly used for missions the Emperor didn't trust to anyone but Russ. Older fluff, that may have been retconned, makes it seem like if the Blood Angel's were the Emperor's Sword and the Imperial Fists, his Shield, then the wolves are the Emperor's axe because an axe is a tool AND a weapon, a level of utility only shared by World Eaters and Night Lords.

[Surreal Cruelty]

We didnt even split in half, we let go one great company, and it was chapter sized.

The great companies may have gotten smaller over the millenia, which is fitting with the dystopia.

Plus you have to be subtle if you're using the Codex as toilet paper, the Astral Claws found that out the hard way. Couldn't maintain a dozen Great Companies, each at Chapter strength or larger, operating out of the Aett without someone eventually noticing, so the Companies would've had to shrink somewhat over time. But who knows how many 'Lost' Companies there are out there .

The smaller great companies is very much a side effect of the actual ban on accelerated gene-seed techniques at use during the height of the Great Crusade.

As for having several companies operating at chapter strength, the Black Templars are rumored to have as many as 5000 marines. Pretty sneaky of them.

The wolves never really accepted the Codex, and unlike the Templars, they don't really beat it around the bush. They don't have to. They have millennia of respect as one of the founding legions, the support and good will of many of the other 9 founding legions, several High Lords, a navigator house, and numerous vassals and allies all over the empire. The Astral Claws did not have as much good faith and credit behind them.

Every time the issue of the Codex Astartes, and their lack of adherence to it, has been brought up, the wolves have pretty much had the attitude of "make us." The wolves have always had a habit of telling those who don't like the way they do things to go stuff themselves. Bjorn was the Great Wolf after Russ disappeared; when they thought they could bully him into compliance (because he isn't Russ), he threatened to secede from the empire (early 2nd ed reference, doesn't appear to have been ret-conned completely, just not mentioned in the new codex. I missed 3rd Ed.).

The Templars are probably only as deceptive as they are out of respect for Dorn's memory and fellow descendants of the Imperial Fists. Ask them. Otherwise I am sure they would probably tell Codex zealots to get stuffed too. For that matter I would bet they are all too happy to challenge anyone who questions their integrity, with bolter and blade if necessary.

Back on-topic, I too would rather they get everything right. Just as much as the Wolves, the Sisters and Custodians deserve to have pretty awesome models too.

(Edited like three timed because I can't format a paragraph at 1 am)

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Bjorn was the Great Wolf after Russ disappeared; when they thought they could bully him into compliance (because he isn't Russ), he threatened to secede from the empire (early 2nd ed reference, doesn't appear to have been ret-conned completely, just not mentioned in the new codex.  I missed 3rd Ed.).

 

 

 

Is there an actual source for this?

 

WLK

[Surreal Cruelty]

You'll have to give me a little while to find my 2nd Ed. Codex Space Wolves.  It's in terrible condition last I saw it, which was more than a year ago, and that was before a basement flood got many of my old books.

 

Edit, may take awhile, might have been still in the Dark Millennium edition, it was the first codex for the Space Wolves, and was the one where they rolled out of being an adamantly codex adherent chapter from the Rogue Trader era.

 

Eventually found it, Pg 68 of the 2nd Ed. codex under Bjorn's entry.

[Squark]

It's also worth pointing out the Wolves are in spitting distance of the eye of terror- trying to bring them to heel would create a major disruption in one of the most critical areas of the imperium.

[Valerian]

 

Bjorn walked at the side of Russ himself, and was the first Great Wolf of the Chapter after the Primarch disappeared. He led the Space Wolves on the first Great Hunt, the Chapter's epic but fruitless quest to find Russ, and it was he who reluctantly gave the order to cease the Hunt, when it became obvious that Russ was not to be found. As the first Great Wolf he was instrumental in resisting the attempts of the newly created Administration to force the Space Wolves to accept the dictates of the Codex Astartes, even going as far as to threaten to rebel if the Administration persisted. Such was the fragile state of the fledgling Imperium that the Administration withdrew its demands. Thus was the unique nature of the Space Wolves preserved.

Bjorn's heroic career as a Great Wolf was cut tragically short during the Proxima Rebellion when he heroically led a raid to free brother Space Wolves trapped in the embattled Dreadsun Fortress. The raid was successful but Bjorn suffered so many wounds that he was left paralysed and crippled, and not even the best efforts of the Wolf Priests could save him. Eventually, to preserve his life, what was left of his shattered body was transplanted into a Dreadnought.

For the next five hundred years or so, Bjorn was constantly in the forefront of battle whenever the Space Wolves fought. He distinguished himself on Algol Nine when he slew the Daemon Thran'saba, and saved the Planetary Governor from sacrifice. On the desert world of Quaran he slew the Ork Warlord Makrina and thus broke the Waaagh-Makrina. On the Hiveworld of Thranx he slew the rogue psyker Vornalan and thus averted a terrible rebellion. Slowly, though, the years took their toll on this proud and ancient warrior, and he took to spending longer and longer periods dormant, in stasis sleep. Given his exemplary record and long history of dedication to the Chapter, his fellow Space Wolves left him undisturbed.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

damn, cant believed I missed something so awesome.

 

thanks!

 

WLK

[Vash113]

Do we think then, that if they're holding off on our beloved chapter, they are likely to re-work some of our fluff?

 

I can't remember if stuff printed by FW or BL becomes law, or is it only stuff printed by GW it's self? I know that they are sub entities of GW.

 

Also I'm sure I've seen somewhere a reading list for all things Space Wolf, but for the life of me I can't remember where. I thought we had one in this forum?

 

I doubt Forge World will retcon or alter anything, for the most part the Horus Heresy series has simply gone into greater detail and background on things that have only been mentioned in passing, and I like that.

 

I agree with the sentiments of many here that I'd rather Forge World take their time and do it right than rush out a sub-standard product, that said I am really looking forward to seeing what they do and would love some new Space Wolf models.

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

The cool thing about 30k is that the 40k wolves wont be much different, the figures can be used in both eras and vice versa. Cant wait to see what they do with our codex which should be released when the Horus Heresy 1000. sons and the Space Wolves also gets released.

[Inquisitor Kravin]

It seems ironic that the general opinion now seems to be that Russ chose not to split his legion sized force but over time it dwindled to being no more than about double the size of the chapter (twelve Great Companies with up to a couple of hundred marines each) whilst Guilliman split his Legion into loads of Chapters, many of which are still at full strength and thanks to Matt Ward all Ultramarines successors view Marneus Calgar as their ultimate supreme commander as he is their "spiritual liege" and seems to get to referee inter-chapter disputes. This means that the Wolves are actually more compliant with the fundamental principle of the Codex Astartes than the Ultramarines are.

 

Making the Wolves a large Legion seems odd when their main action in the Heresy was against the Thousand Sons who were a tiny legion. Just goes to show why the Wolves are right to be afraid of maleficarum.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Bah, Ward fluff, get thee behind me satan!

 

Also bear in mind, the Wolves also have their run around with the Alpha Legion, plus in the older fluff (not sure if they're going to retcon this) they took a leading role in the Scouring, so that probably also depleted their numbers somewhat.

 

But ultimately, the scaling and numbers of 40k have always been all over the place. Hell, FW couldn't even keep the size of the Death Guard consistent across 2 books, 95,000 in Betrayal, 'most' of which are deployed to Istvaan, with a third or so of their strength sent to die on Istvaan III. Plus the substantial losses they took finishing off the loyalists, and yet the apparently had 70,000 or so Astartes for Istavaan V. If memorey serves a similar thing was done with the WE, but I can't remember the numbers.

[Vash113]

Yea the numbers for the legiones are always extremely inconsistent. Just off the top of my head one account of the Raven Guard stated they had around 200,000 legionaries and that was average to small and were reduced to a little under 10% after Istvaan V, or around 19,000. Then Horus Heresy novels put that number around 90,000 reduced to some 6,000 after the Istvaan V Dropsite Massacre but then the Forge World books lower that to 70,000 with around 4-6 thousand left after the dropsite massacre. Other legiones numbers fluctuate just as much.

 

For some of the legiones inconsistent numbers make sense, the Iron Warriors being so spread out, broken down into dozens of different detachments of various sizes all of which recruit, train and equip their own legionaries gives credence to unreliable numbers but other legiones like the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists should be pretty straightforward and reliable, yet the numbers there still vary considerably from source to source. You'd think GW would have made a cheat sheet or chart reference for their staff by now...

 

As for small to large legiones the Forge World books put most of the legiones from somewhere between 90,000-120,000 on the small-ish end and around 150,000-170,000 on the large end. So the Space Wolves being larg-ish could still be at the lower end of large at around 150,000 and the Thousand Sons small-ish size could be at the larger end of small at around 120,000 giving only a 30,000 difference which could simply be accounted for a roughly balanced engagement through the defense forces on Prospero and elements of the Space Wolves too distant or otherwise engaged to return in time for the Scouring of Prospero. So it could easily have been a relatively even fight, despite the difference in legion sizes.