Vyshez Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Hello brothers, Lately i sweared that i will never play again competetively. But my gaming group keeps thinking of WH40K as a sport, and try to balance it to perfectness using Banhammer (knights got banned, escalation got banned, stronghold assault got banned, dataslates got banned, they nearly banned codex supplements and inquisition). My idea is to show people, that no matter how many times you swing banhmammer there are still things in every codex, thant can annoy you and make game disbalanced form the start and that balancing the this game is not for mortals. So i ask you to share your wisdom of all the dirty little(or big) tricks that our proud Chapter can do. I want to hear anything from tactics to unit combinations and full army lists. Also i dont want to build competetive that strives to win, but list which will drive my opponents crazy. PS. Sorry for my english, its not perfect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 They realy should ban inq , if they are droping that much stuff. Anyway. We are talking about BA only stuff or stuff that everyone can do , but BA can do it better/different , because of the units that are in their codex ? Because everyone can sling shot and there is always interesting stuff you can do using ally+DLC , but no one else can melta venguard [at least not anymore]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Until the new Codex hits, our Vanguard Veterans can charge on the turn they arrive via Deep Strike. Couple that with only a D6 scatter and you have a potent surprise that can still catch some unaware. Land Raiders can still Deep Strike: arguably a gimmick but decent fun all the same. Give a Furioso Librarian Dreadnought a Lucius Drop Pod and Shield of Sanguinius for a 3+ cover save on the turn it arrives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Our codex spell, Sword of Sang, has very vague wording, once casted it can be interpreted to be used until end of game ... as dirty as it can get :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 This one is available to all Space Marine players, but Scouts do not need to roll for scatter when they disembark a Storm Raven via Skies of Blood/Fury/whatever. Our codex spell, Sword of Sang, has very vague wording, once casted it can be interpreted to be used until end of game ... as dirty as it can get You are also likely to never play that opponent again... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 boo. i lost my post ><: Quickly again- i think banning stuff is dumb. Really poor form and counter productive. But thats another discussion. its tough to make a dirty trick list with BA because theyre an old codex. Something like: Meph 3x Frag/mag/mg pod Furioso 4x las/plas razor squads 3x Baals is a cool 1850. Pretty meaty actually. alternatively, Mephiston Snippy Furioso Dread Bashy Furioso Dread 5x HB Razor, ASM w/ Flamer 3x 3 Attack Bikes w/ MMs 2x Ravens Thats a fast, shooty, scary, fighty list. Very solid too. MMs zip around opening up stuff, HBs lay down suppressive fire, ravens come in clean up with the dreads. Both of those a lot of players would struggle with I think. Generally speaking though, our beneficial units are: Meph, Corbs DC Furiosos Vanguard Discounted razor squads Well priced MM attack bikes Baals Preds Ravens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyshez Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 I would like to know what we can do with our codex. Alas, Dante and his mask still surprises people, in a bad way i mean :D. Hmm, deepstriking Land Raider full of deathcompany ant Corbulo attached, and Dante joins them on the way for some Hit&Run goodness. I'll have to think about vanguard veterans descending maybe some big squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Vindicators - Being fast, they can move 6" and fire. Corbulo - Will tank anything, often found fronting Death Company or Terminator squads. Dante and Sanguinor can be a potent, if pricey combo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 This one is available to all Space Marine players, but Scouts do not need to roll for scatter when they disembark a Storm Raven via Skies of Blood/Fury/whatever. Our codex spell, Sword of Sang, has very vague wording, once casted it can be interpreted to be used until end of game ... as dirty as it can get You are also likely to never play that opponent again... You are right sir , I was just trying to point out there is not many dirty tricks in BA book On the other hand my opponents whine about 5 TH/SS termis with corbs in SR (T3 charge or hammer and anvil type of unit) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 If you purchase a Shyshield, you can start that Storm Raven on the board in hover mode ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnus Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Jolemai, what allows you to do that? I've been wishing I could do that for months, and never had a clue you could use a Skyshield to get a flyer on early like that. Since I used to use Stormravens in 5th, having one in as a fast skimmer is something I'm quite used to, and can attest that most people really hate taking a first turn missile barrage to the face. Plus, you can still get the 4++ from the skyshield too, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 It's in Stronghold Assault - there's an upgrade called "Ready for Takeoff" that allows a flier with the Hover special rule to start deployed on it in hover mode rather than starting in reserve. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnus Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Hmm, I never did pick up Stronghold or Escalation, may have to at least borrow a copy now. And then see if any of the local tournaments have banned/unbanned Skyshields recently... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3666988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I find 9 sternguard with corbs in a pod and 10 bolter dc with a couple of power weapons in a pod also dropping turn one, people aren't too happy with. thats a lot of fnp troops to shift, the sternguard with a few melta usually net you first blood and turn two the relentless bolters and 4 attacks on the charge can threaten any unit through weight of fire/attacks. Also a raven delivery system for a dread and meph is quiet nasty, you can go blender for dual ap3 mayham or pack a fisted furios or dc dread and use it for tackling the tougher targets while throwing meph into squishies. Looking through the lateast codex i see you can now give a furioso librarian 2 rulebook powers, which could maybe be pretty interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3667179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyshez Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 Nice ideas! I will use them all :D What do you think of Flamestorm Baal's? To outflank or not to outflank? Have you tried outflanking Mephiston, when he rolls warlord trait that allows it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3667623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 One thing unique to BA is scouts can take a locator beacon (SM biker scouts can but not normal scouts). That means you can Infiltrate with a squad of snipers carrying a beacon and bring in a reserve unit (say, vanguard vets) right behind enemy lines with NO scatter :grin: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3667665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 With a Baal I tend to make use of the Scout move rather than Outflank (AC/HB). Place it 12" from your edge, then move it another 12" before turn 1 and you can bring a lot of firepower within range of their units on your first turn... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3667668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Nice ideas! I will use them all What do you think of Flamestorm Baal's? To outflank or not to outflank? Have you tried outflanking Mephiston, when he rolls warlord trait that allows it? Depends whats in your list and whats in his. Mephy's greatest asset is that he draws a lot of fire and if the enemy goes first, can even charge in turn 1. Having him outflank means he's not charging till earliest turn 3 and thats if he comes on in turn 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3667682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I outflank or scout my Baal based entirely on mission/opponent - you can't really make a blanket call whether to outflank them or deploy them normally. One-dimensional thinking (e.g "I will always deepstrike this" or "I will always outflank that") can get you in trouble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3667691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyshez Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 One more question in dirty tricks arena, Lemartes and his mega incarnation of doom with one wound, whats your experiences? Have he ever worked his points back? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3669018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Lemartes can be a lot of fun, however, it's harder to enable him to go super saiyan with the current wound allocation rules and whilst he benefits more from Rage on the charge, becoming AP4 has made him a little less desirable to some people. (Personally, I think he's ace.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3669037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 It has been pointed out to me that FNP still counts as an unsaved wound so he could go nuts with 2 wounds left, I could also be insane... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3670299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakbal Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 It has been pointed out to me that FNP still counts as an unsaved wound so he could go nuts with 2 wounds left, I could also be insane... I never thought about it before, but that does make some degree of sense to me. FNP is the act of ignoring a wound, not saving it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3670708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Exactly my thoughts and my gaming group has no issues allowing this Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3670960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 So i ask you to share your wisdom of all the dirty little(or big) tricks that our proud Chapter can do. I want to hear anything from tactics to unit combinations and full army lists. Psyker spam! Some other armies can pull this off too but not in the really annoying way we can. Without allies we can get 5 psykers; 2 librarians in HQ (or 1 librarian + Mephiston) 3 Librarian dreads All of these (except Mephiston) can be put in pods or on bikes to make sure they are available to you from turn 1. So what can we do with them? First lets look at our codex powers, one in particular: Fear of the darkness. It autohits and forces a morale test with -2 to LD, nasty! Remember that units which are already falling back autofail morale tests! This makes spamming multiples of this power very deadly to armies who doesn't have a lot of LD10 or fearless. Read up on how fall back moves work, with a unit of your own between your target and his table edge it's often possible to block a legal fallback move and auto-kill the target! Now lets look at rulebook powers. The most spam friendly powers are not the buffs found in divination or biomancy, they can be found in telepathy. The ones we are interested in are mainly 'Terrify' and 'Puppet master'. Since our psykers are ML 1,5 we get two rolls but reroll the powers which require 2 warp charge (and those are not as interesting anyway). In other words you have a really good chance of rolling the power of your choice. Failing that the primaris is also nice to spam against anything that doesn't have very high LD or good invuls. 'Terrify' can work as a way to break units that have normal LD but are fearless for some reason, a very good combo power with our own 'fear of the darkness' on another psyker! 'Puppet master' works great when your opponent has a good shooting MC or a vehicle. Imagine turning a wraithknight, riptide, imperial knight or even a super heavy against the controlling player! It can be devastating with just one and you'll likely have 3-4 opportunities every turn to pull it off! Want to make things even more annoying? Ally some AM and Inq psykers.... I think we can pull off 9 or 10 in total in sub 2k lists. All land raider armies! We can get 5 land raiders and Mephiston in below 2k pts, just saying Stop tankshocking yourself! Ah, the magna grapple and the shenanigans you can pull off. Not only can you tankshock enemy units with their own vehicles, even walkers, you can also tankshock your own units with his vehicles in your shooting phase! 'Now why would I do that? You might ask. The answer is simple, it allows you a free shooting action thanks to 'death or glory' which can be very useful against mounted units (if you pull it off). Consider this setup: MG = Any dread with a magna grapple BA = Blood angels infantry unit (preferably fearless and with a melta weapon of any kind on the model that will perform 'death or glory', terminator with chainfist is another 'safe' option) ET = Enemy transport MGMG MGMG BA BA BA BA BA(melta) BA BA BA BA ETETETET ETETETET ETETETET The enemy is cowardly hiding in his metal box and you want him out! 1. The grapple dread fires through the blood angels infantry at the transport. If the vehicles blows up all is well, the infantry can shoot and assault the infantry inside as normal. The dread can also get in on the action. 2. If you hit with the grapple but fail to kill the vehicle you now have a second chance! Grapple that transport into your own unit! Thanks to positioning you should be able to declare a 'death or glory' with that melta toting model. Gun, multi or bomb doesn't matter! It even works on a multimelta that would normally fire snap shots, such as a tactical or devastator marine who disembarked in this turn. You are more likely than not to kill the vehicle in this way, Effectively gaining a free shot at the transport. 3. If successful your infantry can now act normally in the shooting phase. In other words they will be free to shoot and assault as normal at the demeched enemy infantry. Blender dreads... ... with prescience cast on them. 6 WS5, S7, I4 attacks re rolling hits, wounds and generating new attacks for every unsaved wound. Will obliterate tac squads with ease and possibly chew up entire blobs of guards or gaunts in a single combat phase. The sketchy stuff... (use only for fun and check with your group first!) RAW you can grapple super heavies and buildings too... RAW you can tankshock (but not ram!) with a deep striking land raider arriving from reserves, effectively making you immune from mishaps due to infantry! Just declare a tankshock before your place and roll for scatter Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290264-dirty-tricks-of-ba/#findComment-3672687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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