BA trying to get competetive

[BloodTzar]

Hello guys,

has been a while I have taken my BA out of the box, and give "epic-narrative-w.ever-tic" 40k a chance once again. I have had face the new guard; guard that BA has the most toy against and lost hard.

I do not want to go in more deep into the Codex-creep that GW has started while ago, however I would like to discuss more of the toy/ways/tactics that can help current BA to win games. Not only to help me optimize my list, however to discuss combos that work for you

I would like to try to get a list ready for the tournament that I might attend shorty it would be 1850 format

At this very moment I have updated my list to something like this:

HQ:

Meph (I am thinking of BrB powers, as some of you have suggested here; namely Biomancy) ~ SR 1

ELITES:

Fragiouso (standard melta, Frag) ~ In the FW Drop Pod (65p, and FA slot I know, but is much better because the shrouded)

Fragiouso (standard melta, Frag) ~ In the FW Drop Pod

TROOPS:

5 ASM (melta, MBs ; still not sure about the setup here) ~ Drop Pod

5 ASM (melta, MBs ; still not sure about the setup here) ~ Drop Pod

7 DC (bolters, 2x CCW, Axe) ~ Drop Pod

DC Shreder-Dread ~ SR 2

FAST:

Lucius Drop Pod

Lucius Drop Pod

HEAVY:

SR1 (MM,AC)

SR2 (MM,AC)

There is still 260 points to play with; I am opened up to every option you might be suggesting.

Most possible I was thinking about;

• SW rune priest (2+ armor), with Plasma Grey Hunters in the game in pod
• Libby-Dread in pod for the 3+ shrouded for the Fragiousos
• Some Van Vets with Melta Bombs priest on foot( into drop pod) plus comms relay

Please feel free to comment, and put your tactical advice's that works

~BT

PS. If any mod can hide my list in the spoiler would be great,as it was a torture to write this post from my cellphone thank you

[BloodTzar]

Any suggestions :) ?

[Jolemai]

Approve of the "power level: 9000" tag :p

 

At this tournament, what do you expect? As you've included Forgeworld units, do you expect it to be "no holds barred"?

[BloodTzar]

First of all, the TO's has mentioned that there will be some FW allowed, for out-dated codex's, although it will have to be discussed with TO's in before.  Moreover you have to own the actual FW model to do so. On the other hand, I have preliminary "OK" for the Lucius DP, as they do not see them as OP, moreover adding some "spark" into the dry BA book, but overall there might not be that many FW things around.

 

Second, I do expect all the nasty combos that recent codexes has brought up, Taudars, Astra-Inquisitsium even Chaos-Wolfstar (Drakes and Thunder cav), as the local meta is quite competitive with guys coming from the old rouge-trader era, there will be lot of competitive builds.

 

Lastly, I wonder, if pure BA has any chance lately ...

[Jolemai]

Well, Morticon is still sweeping all before him with a pure BA list and Chaplain Admetus finished sixth recently, so we can still put in a decent showing.

 

Will give some more thoughts shortly, but have you read the blog/report where a chap won a tournament recently with a similar list to this?

[BloodTzar]

Not really I have seen a Bat rep while ago, on Frontline gaming, where Pascal from NZ, had similar list (he had inspired me), but I think he had used the Fur-libby there in pod as well to get that 3+ cover on the LPods. Overall I think he was not super successful with the list.

 

On the other hand, I have shifted from my, Death star approach in SR I have done before; while deadly it is very fragile.

[redhorse]

Well I just beat a suped up TAU list with farsight enclave and three riptides....which according to the internet is not supposed to happen.

I'm actually a painter for frontline and part of the crew. The tau army I beat is a member of team zero comp. From my experiences I highly recommend the following units because they have helped me in a competitive atmosphere: 10 bolter death co in drop pod with a fist or hammer, multiple dakka baal preds(2-3), msu scouts, priests, reclusiarch with jump pack+powerfist, dual librarians( both rolling on divination) or just mephiston(codex powers). I don't recommend the list you have proposed. I have crafted an av 13 spam list/ mech list and used it to great success. If you can work in three frag cannon furiosos in normal drop pods and three baal preds. I promise mcuh murder will occur. The way to do it is to go with assault squads in razorbacks with twin linked assault cannons. Each one of those units is only 155 pts bare bones. Take four of those a librarain for your HQ and then buy all the av 13 goodies you can afford. Baals, Dreads, Preds. 

[BloodTzar]

Thank you for you input redhorse, however after the last game with the new IG, I am affraid mech spam is exactly what they want to face. Moreover with all the vector striking madness AV 11 has limited use, as it is mroe than dead :)

[Pascalnz]

Hey there, I did pretty well with my list:). I beat tau, eldar, CSM and only lost to ovesa star being run by the nova open champion:P

 

also, lucius pods are now dedicated transports and only 50 points:)

[BloodTzar]

Heh good to see a reply from you Pascal, as you have inspired me to create this list :)

 

Therefore I would like to know what do you suggest to add in there for the extra 280 I have now with the 10p discount on the LPods

 

~BT

[Chaplain Admetus]

Well, Morticon is still sweeping all before him with a pure BA list and Chaplain Admetus finished sixth recently, so we can still put in a decent showing.

 

Will give some more thoughts shortly, but have you read the blog/report where a chap won a tournament recently with a similar list to this?

 

In the interest of full disclosure I should probably point out that the only other BA player at my event finished dead last, so YMMV...

[knife&fork]

Do you have to remain embarked on the lucius to get that cover? 

[Jolemai]

The Dreadnought merely has to remain touching the Pod and that does include the doors.

[Jolemai]

It basically represents the dust/etc thrown up when the Pod lands. So it's that turn only.

[Pascalnz]

well, you can stay on board as well, so the enemy have to destroy the pod to assault you, darn FW crazy rules:) by on board I mean disembarked and being inside[or on top] of the pod. usually the only time I'd do that is if I was desperate to get that frag melta magna off or if th pod was going to be surrounded and glanced to death.

 

As a note to knife, if you are embarked, you can't get shot at all, just like anything else embarked on a transport so, shrouding doesn't matter that much:P cept for saving the pod

 

also, anything that shoots over the pods doors or body has shrouded granted to the target.

 

as for what to do with the points? get a comms relay any way you can, Ravens and pods should be controlled by you, especially the SR with DC in it, gosh you wan that coming in as soon as possible, unless you are going first and your opponent has flyers, then holding off your stuff and waiting for theirs will most likely save you the destruction off all the DC.

 

I love DC, but find it really hard to have them in a Raven, they just die soo easily.  

 

soo, another lucious podded furioiso [maybe a libby with Fear and shield, first turn drop and fearing off broadsides or riptides is golden:)] and a defence line with a comms relay is around 280. put the defines line half way up the board so mephi can jump behind it, get to striking range and also use the relay[not for all situations, and really try and put mesh completely out of sight at all times:)

[BloodTzar]

Have been play testing the list over the w.end ; and have found one of the major flaws, that it is illegal. With the 6th ed reserve rules, this list cannot be placed as intended. Only awkward way to do so is legal, therefore I will need to re-work it once again.

 

I would like to ask Pascal, how he made it that he was able legally deploy?

 

On the other hand, Lucius Pods with Fraggy dreads are golden, the 280p I have filled in with the rune priest with the plasma-fangs in a pod and bare priest. Very solid :)

[Cronhour]

Have been play testing the list over the w.end ; and have found one of the major flaws, that it is illegal. With the 6th ed reserve rules, this list cannot be placed as intended. Only awkward way to do so is legal, therefore I will need to re-work it once again.

I would like to ask Pascal, how he made it that he was able legally deploy?

On the other hand, Lucius Pods with Fraggy dreads are golden, the 280p I have filled in with the rune priest with the plasma-fangs in a pod and bare priest. Very solid

from the report of his vegas list he started with meph on the table and everything else in reserve.

[BloodTzar]

Have been play testing the list over the w.end ; and have found one of the major flaws, that it is illegal. With the 6th ed reserve rules, this list cannot be placed as intended. Only awkward way to do so is legal, therefore I will need to re-work it once again.

I would like to ask Pascal, how he made it that he was able legally deploy?

On the other hand, Lucius Pods with Fraggy dreads are golden, the 280p I have filled in with the rune priest with the plasma-fangs in a pod and bare priest. Very solid

from the report of his vegas list he started with meph on the table and everything else in reserve.

Yes my proble is DC in Pod, DC Dread riding SR and Meph riding SR due to BrB powers. That might become an issue towards the deployment rules...

[Pascalnz]

check the FAQ, anything in a transport that must start in reserve does not count towards the 50% round down that needs to be on the table at the start. the example use vendettas and drop pods[dedicated and non dedicated] 

there's even a another question in the faq about it being possible to lose if everything is in a flyer turn one... and yup you auto lose;p

[Ushtarador]

I'll be going to the ETC this year with a BA + GK army. Now there is one fact you have to accept: Against some of the top lists, you are considerably lucky if you manage a tie.

That being said, my current idea goes like that:

Mephiston
Coteaz

Fragioso, Pod
Fragioso, Pod

5xASM, Melta, Pod
5xASM, Melta, Pod

3x Servitor, Plasma Cannon

2x Crusader, 4x DCA
GK Stormraven, Psybolts, Hurricanes

BA Stormraven, Hurricanes
BA Stormraven

Imperial Bastion, Comms Relais

There is one very important fact: If you play 2 or more Stormravens, the killy drop pods must not arrive turn 1. With half your points off the board, against a strong army they will just get killed without ever making their points back, and it's a huge waste. So now the idea is to drop 2 emtpy drop pods turn 1 (pack the ASM in the raven), and then arrive with 2 Fragiosos and 3 ravens at once thanks to the comms relay.

I would not put Mephi in the Stormraven - often, you don't want to go into hover mode, and he is already mobile enough by himself. Keep the Codex powers and use him to defend the bastion and coteaz from being killed by a fast army.

I am even toying around with a 4 SR army now, but that would have to use GK as main army, so let's not discuss that here

[Pascalnz]

yeah I'm fond of the even drop pods for turn two over saturation, i had that for LVO. you can fake it a bit by having one in a storm raven if you are desperate for turn two and you have 5 pods.

 

If you've ever played with lucius pods they are amazing at keeping the dreads alive, then turn two you'll have 2 or 3 dreads stepping out, fragging and assaulting plus the ravens plus mephiston, it's bloody ugly:).

 

also, lucius are great if you are up against a lot of interceptor, you keep one for turn two and plant it right in front of the interceptor, then use it to hopefully grant your incoming flyers cover from the pod and also shrouding from the pod.

[BloodTzar]

Well thank you for some light into the rules darkness, although my null deployment dream is shattered as it is illegal... As I wanted to try Meph with Bio, not wings/Sword.

[Jolemai]

Obviously I'm missing something.

 

If you go first, your Pods will arrive before the end of the game turn.

If you go second, your Pods will arrive before the end of the game turn.

 

It's game turn, not player turn that triggers the "auto-lose". Also, Mephiston's Storm Raven is a non-dedicated example that Pascalnz mentions above.

[BloodTzar]

Obviously I'm missing something.

 

If you go first, your Pods will arrive before the end of the game turn.

If you go second, your Pods will arrive before the end of the game turn.

 

It's game turn, not player turn that triggers the "auto-lose". Also, Mephiston's Storm Raven is a non-dedicated example that Pascalnz mentions above.

Seems like I have misunderstood the rules, basically null deployment is available once you have something on the table by turn 1. Correct me if I am wrong , however how does this works with the minimum 50% of the force "must-have" to be on the table, this applies to at the end of the turn?

[knife&fork]

It's half rounding up, and units that always start in reserve (like pods and flyers) doesn't count. 

 

So if every unit except Mephiston is either a flyer or start in a pod you can still place him in reserves.