Thoughts on the dreadclaw?

[Grey Mage]

In 6th edition, as a hover-type flyer with assault vehicle, it seems a pretty decent deal. What are peoples thoughts on it?

If you cant use FW in your area, that sucks, and Im sorry- but that doesnt change how effective it is in the areas it is allowed to be used in, so lets skip that part of the argument ok?

[Chiv]

I haven't looked at the rules in a bit but it seemed to be rather expensive points wise and takes up an otherwise useful FoC spot and cant be a dedicated transport. Even regular drop pods are kind of a bummer now, doeesn't mean I still wouldnt like to have some as CSM my zerkers would love to drop in on squishies.

[henrywalker]

If your opponent can deal with flyers then it's just too much like throwing away the unit inside. However if they don't bring a dedicated flyer killer or if you have a juicer flyer that will be a more attractive target then they are great. Yes a unit comes in late but it can get into combat having been protected the entire time. I use them for my plague ogryn who would definitely rather not be shot at

 

I've always thought that, since fluff wise they are supposed to have big mouths on the bottom they should be able to land on the enemy, grab them and take off again

[daveNYC]

Mal did a test with them a few months ago.  Upshot was they're expensive, take a FoC slot, and have no deep strike mitigation.  Being able to scoot around the board isn't that valuable since it has to hover to drop troops and AV12 (I think?) means it dies easily, and it isn't exactly packing a lot of firepower.

[henrywalker]

It's main plus is being an assault vehicle

[Sception]

Which is largely-to-completely undone by entering the board by deep strike.

 

Here's the deal:

 

1) it's expensive, in points and slots.  It's main comparison point is the drop pod, which is less than half the points and takes up no force org slots.

 

2) it must deploy via deep strike, but has no mitigation.  Maybe it arrives turn two, maybe turn 3 or later.  When it does show up, if it scatters over friendly models, or within an inch of enemy models, or onto impassible terrain that you can't physically balance the model on, it mishaps.  With no teleport homers, that happens more than you would like, and can easily result in the loss of the unit inside, along with your overpriced drop pod.

 

3) it is an assault vehicle (with frag launchers, iirc?  it's been a while, and the new kharybdis kind of overlaps that same space in my brain)... but why do you care?  You cannot assault the turn you arrive from reserves regardless, so that leaves you with two options - wait around for a turn inside the vehicle to charge the next turn, in which case you run the risk of losing the vehicle and the unit inside - or deploy immediately, in which case you still assault next turn, only you get to shoot your pistols and whatnot this turn as well.  The latter is almost always better, in which case being an assault vehicle, frag launchers or not, means nothing.

 

4) it isn't immobilized after landing.  However, how much is that really going to do for you?  It arrives turn 2 or 3, and either immediately drops off a unit or spends a turn waiting around to drop off the unit in the next turn.  So then what?  spend another turn getting to another unit, a turn loading them, a turn taking them somewhere, and a turn dropping them off?  I'm sorry, but the game's over by then.  Being able to keep flying around after dropping off a unit really doesn't do much for you apart from maybe, maybe contest objectives, and at only AV12 even that's hardly reliable.

 

 

It is probably going to change this summer, most likely gaining a cut back version of the kharybdis rules (minus the missile pods), but paying an increased cost for them, which will be a lateral shift at best, and may even make them worse.  If that comes to pass, they'll be over 100 points plus a fast attack slot for an overglorified drop pod.  They will gain the drop pods scatter mitigation, but will have to deep strike in hover mode, no arriving flying for protection and dropping off units on the following turn.  They will gain a flame blast attack, but you won't be able to deploy the turn you use it, and since you'll always be better off deploying instead of waiting around a turn, you won't use it.  Because if you land right next to an enemy unit to use the blast and don't deploy, then you'll cause less damage than if you just got out and fired your bolters/pistols, and whatever's left of the enemy unit will surround you before your AV12 hovering pod is dropped, instant killing the unit inside.  Again, you will likely never get much use out of the assault transport or frag launchers rules.

 

The upsides will be scatter mitigation and actually having a weapon to use on turns after you drop your unit off, but those won't be worth the increased points cost, and it will still be functionally a 100+ point drop pod that eats a slot from our most valuable force org category.

 

 

To be functional, the claw needs to cost considerably less than it currently does, plus be a dedicated transport, plus get that scatter mitigation, and even then it will still just be an overglorified drop pod, because 'assault vehicle drop pod' is just a failure of a concept to start.  The only way to really make that concept work is to allow the unit to assault out the turn they arrive, and that's just not happening.

 

 

Long and the short of it is that it's a bad unit - but don't take my word for it, grab a couple soda pop bottles and proxy them out for yourself.

[Kilofix]

With the old IA rules - the Dreadclaw isn't much good unless you actually need to PICK UP troops. Which is like almost never.

 

But if the new incoming rules change it so that it is like HH1's SoH Dreadclaw (and like loyalists Drop Pods) then it may be more useful but still slightly more expensive points-wise.

 

Now the Kharybdis - I totally love. It has the Drop Pod Assault and IGS rules so it comes in on Turn 1 with DS mitigation. Then hopefully you unload something big so that your opponent focuses on whatever it is that you unloaded instead of the Kharybdis. Then next turn the Kharybdis takes off and becomes a Flyer with 10 x Str 6 Twin-Linked Pinning shots that can fire at 5 different targets. It is more than capable of killing other flyers if you distracted your opponent from blowing it up that first turn. Alternatively, you can also use its Heat Blast to kill blobs In Cover. Or, you can use its size to block LOS to the troops you are dropping off.

[chillin]

just two expensive for what it does. Also it's as "assault" vehicle that must DS which means you can't assault ???? Really ? did they even think about that before they wrote it ??

[Grey Mage]

2) it must deploy via deep strike, but has no mitigation.

According to the FW FAQ its a flyer, with hover and transport as types.... nothing about having to deploy via deep strike.

[Kilofix]

 

2) it must deploy via deep strike, but has no mitigation.

According to the FW FAQ its a flyer, with hover and transport as types.... nothing about having to deploy via deep strike.

 

Yeah basically its like a cheaper Storm Raven / Eagle with no guns.

[daboarder]

In 6th edition, as a hover-type flyer with assault vehicle, it seems a pretty decent deal. What are peoples thoughts on it?

 

If you cant use FW in your area, that sucks, and Im sorry- but that doesnt change how effective it is in the areas it is allowed to be used in, so lets skip that part of the argument ok?

 ask your self.

 

Do you really want to

 

pay those points

 

eat that slot

 

for a turn 3 assualt IF you dont get blown up turn 2

 

 

2) it must deploy via deep strike, but has no mitigation.

According to the FW FAQ its a flyer, with hover and transport as types.... nothing about having to deploy via deep strike.

This is out of date, the latest rules were printed after the FAQ