Leif Bearclaw Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Didn't Angron have a lot more than a few hundred guys? His army was known as the Eaters of Cities, so it seems likely that they sacked multiple High Rider cities during their rebellion. So he must have had a substantial force of dudes, probably enough to prevail, if it wasn't for that whole 'Nails, raaarg' thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3685821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Didn't Angron have a lot more than a few hundred guys? His army was known as the Eaters of Cities, so it seems likely that they sacked multiple High Rider cities during their rebellion. So he must have had a substantial force of dudes, probably enough to prevail, if it wasn't for that whole 'Nails, raaarg' thing.300 gladiators. Its the typical "on a world where only the prisoners fight, no one else remembers how" schtick. The reason they got slaughtered at that last battle was numbers and technology. Besides, a Primarch who can hold up the leg of a Titan and survive an entire wall falling on him tends to make a difference in most conflicts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3685826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 My headcanon regarding angron is the emperor was largely disgusted with him being a slave. All his brothers rose to power of a fashion. It justifies the way he was abandoned. I should congratulate you on managing to make the Emperor even less sympathetic than he already is. Abducted by the ruinous powers, enslaved as a child, mutilated by a device that cripples his mind, and he still manages to raise a slave revolt against the entire population of a high-tech planet. And when Angron finally meets his father, dad's response should be 'loser'? You left out the eldar trying to kill him as a child, which I expect allowed him to be captured. But, Angron is a primarch not an ordinary man. Even with the nails he has numerous advantages over mortals. Its not impressive. If he had at least won, and actually killed the high riders, that would be a basic success. He is a complete failure. And a broken primarch has no use. Any legion could depopulate an entire planet with close combat, they don't because its pointless. Just like Angron. He had advantages from being a promarc, but he was also in a situation that put him at a huge disadvantage compared to every other primarch. Corax raised a successful revolt, but he had a huge manpower advantage, as in the entire population was behind him, and he had time to plan and gather his forces. Curze was one man against a world, but that was a world that had no effective central government that could organize against him as the rulers were also worried about their 'allies' stabbing them in the back, plus it's not like the general population was particularly happy about the high crime rate. Most of the other primarch were in even better positions, having been adopted into the local power structure and then being able to move to the top of the heap by virtue of simply being awesome. Angron was in a situation where he faced a high-tech society where the entire planet was united against his ragtag army of escaped slaves. I don't say this as some indication of moral equivalence between the conflicts, only as a similar level of power imbalance, but a real world example would be the Taliban attempting to implement global Sharia law. It just ain't gonna happen, they don't have the firepower, manpower, or even support among the population for what they're trying to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3685835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I would agree Angron is the most disadvantaged. It doesn't matter. The Imperium is unfair, why should the Emperor be fair? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3686016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 We've seen enough situations where the Emperor shows something like affection for his sons, it wouldn't be out of character for him to express something like outrage over the way Angron was treated. Instead, AFAIK, he yoinks Angron off the planet and dumps him off on the War Hounds, then accepts the planet into the Imperium, including those who mutilated and condemned to an early death one of his sons. Not even a word about at least giving the people who implanted the nails a firm talking to. The Emperor is definitely shortsighted regarding humans vs. humanity, and making his omelette requires breaking a whole crapton of eggs, but there's never been an indication that he would up and discard one of his sons as quickly as you're implying he did with Angron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3686035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well I'd have found Lorgar and said, "Well, lost another one to Ditech," and chopped his head off, virus bombed his world and told his legion "Boys, your daddy made me real disappointed, like your two :cussbird uncles-we-don't talk about anymore. Now I know you're upset, but we need to move past this, so pull your panties out, this crusade don't end until every human world is Freed and Made to join the Imperium-for the Greater Good." I'd be upfront and straight with my "sons" as best as I could. I'd explain my goals for Humanity and why I brought them into the world...promptly displaying the severed heads of Lorgar, II and XI and showing I could take them out too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3686064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The fact that Angron and his legion wasn't "lost" on purpose like the other missing legions only begs the question as to how bad did the two missing legions screw up to deserve their fate? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3686670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daylight Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The fact that Angron and his legion wasn't "lost" on purpose like the other missing legions only begs the question as to how bad did the two missing legions screw up to deserve their fate? Extermination hints that at least one of the legions was destroyed as a result of recruiting from potentially tainted or tainted populations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3686683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The fact that Angron and his legion wasn't "lost" on purpose like the other missing legions only begs the question as to how bad did the two missing legions screw up to deserve their fate? My money's on genetic deviancy/Chaos corruption as well. Remember that Sanguinius feared that if the Emperor knew of the flaw in his Legion, their only legacy would be "a third empty plinth beneath the roof of the Hegemon." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3686692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 There's a big 'no-no' to telling all Primarchs about Chaos - not that I disagree with that solution, I'm just playing Devil's advocate: It gets you closer to Chaos. Of course, Chaos goes were it wants and can touch even the purest mind, with enough effort. But those who know, focus and study (not to mention use, like Magnus) the thing are in serious danger... The Khan, unlike Magnus, thought there should be limits to Warp usage, but correct me if I'm wrong, he thought so due to his way of living, and set of values, he didn't exactly know about the Warp in-depth, did he? Bottom line is, some personalities, especially when in power, are just prone to go apes**t with all the possibilites. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3686778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 There's a big 'no-no' to telling all Primarchs about Chaos - not that I disagree with that solution, I'm just playing Devil's advocate: Either you (the Emp) tell them about Chaos...or Chaos tells them about Chaos. If I were the E, I'd choose to do it myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3686787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 True...but you have to weight the possibilities: 1. They're unaware, Chaos has to come to them, they'll be unprepared and the most vulnerable will fall. 2. They're aware of Chaos. Some will study it, some will muse on what Chaos is (let's discount artifacts since they're already around) so Chaos doesn't have to come to them in order to taint them. Some are now prepared, but even those with the stronger minds might've been too much in touch with the thing to protect themselves. The funny thing about Chaos is it doesn't always need 'bad thoughts' to take root. It just does, in a limit situation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290302-how-would-you-have-handled-the-traitor-primarchs/page/6/#findComment-3686791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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