Frater Cornelius Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Hey, carrying on from a previous thread, where I pondered what my army composition would be. Now I have progressed quite a bit and can boast up to 1700-1850 points on average. Here are the forces that are currently being finished on this sectors Forge World, ready to be shipped to their supporting Knight World where the soldiers and pilots are waiting to wage war against the enemies or mankind: 1x CCS w/ 2x melta and OotF in Chimera w/ ML/HF 3x Primaris Psycher LV1 Divination (Prescience, unless I get lucky with the 4++) 1x Veteran Squad w/ Carapace, 3x melta in Chimera w/ ML/HF 2x Veteran Squad w/ Carapace, 3x plasma in Chimera w/ ML/HF 4x Leman Russ Tanks. Their weapon options are left open for now seeing as I managed to convert and magnetise so every turrent mounted gun can fit on any of the 4 LR. I have 2 of each turret gun availible (2x battle tank box and 2x siege tank box). A Pask Punisher will likely be amongst them. 1x Wyvern Battery <3 1x Imperial Knight Paladin The playstyle revolves around midfield play. I use the Knight more often than not as a huge fire magnet as it is a super-heavy. It can deal with pesky MC or stomp to death hordes and remove 2++ rerollable units with melee/stomp. It also saves me 2 LRBT and his Stubber can fire at FMC to force grounding tests. The veterans are going to camp inside their Chimeras and benefit from the very potent CCS orders to go after key targets and objectives. I don't have that many, so this gives the opponent a choice between killing my scoring units but having to face the Wrath of my big guns or lets the vets go around and try to kill my guns. LR and Wyvern are fire support to bring pressure on the first turn and are the main source of fire power from turn 1. I will usually go for the primary objectives with my veterans while keeping him at bay with relentless LR fire to slow him. Punisher Pask with Divination can take out fliers. My questions to you are: 1. Are FA and Elites worth it in this kind of list? I am not too keen on Ogryns/Bullgryns seeing as they are too slow and expensive. Scions suicide droppers and ratling any good? I do not want to take a hellhound seeing as the Wyvern and LR Eradicator do the same thing, just better for less/just as much points. What about Sentinels though? 2. Allies worth it/needed? I was thinking of Inquisition but they can't enter my Chimeras so I would need to buy additional stuff for them.. and my army already has decent BS and cheaper access to Divination. Anything else to consider? (no xenos! FW is fine though) 3. Are weapon loadouts fine that way? What LR would you recommend. I was thinking about a Pask Punisher with an Extermator all with Heavy Bolters for my HQ Squadron and Demolisher and maybe an Executioner for 2 HS slots? Or how about moving some LR in an Armoured Battle Group allied detachment for a Beast Hunter Command Vanquisher w/ Co-Axial bonus with the option to deal with Tanks and MC very easily? 4. Any other good AA options considering that I don't want to play fliers and I have noone to man a Quad Gun? Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Sentinels are handy as cheap mobile heavy weapons, especially if you sneak in from outflanking as they can cause a lot of mischief. Armoured Sentinels work well in mechanised lists working with Chimeras and infantry too. I'd say that while Hellhounds may perform a somewhat similar role to Wyverns they're far more reliable at dealing damage, to me it comes down to whether you can sit back and shoot or need something to support an advance as to which is better. Ratlings are a nice topping up unit for floating points, but I don't think they'd suit your army. Same with allies, I don't think you need any for this list. The Punisher/Exterminator load out will be common for HQ armour I think as it's solid and reliable, Demolishers are a great close support tank and the Executioner will help take care of 2+ saves should you need it so I think they're good matches for your force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3669025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 Aye, the first wounds are almost guaranteed for the Hellhound, but that will be it. The Wyvern can hide and the Eradicator has superior armour and both have far suprior range making for a more consistent performance. As for close or ranged support, it all depends on the LR loadout. If I go with Punisher Exterminator Demolisher and Executioner I have a threat range of 30 with 2/4 tanks, thus I will be needing more ranged support. Sure the 36" ranged tanks can fire on the first turn, but that is not guaranteed, and on Vanguard Deployment they won't fire on the first turn thus leaving the Knight, Wyvern and Exterminator which ain't enough. Some more LC or AC would be nice, thus I suppose Armoured Sentinels are on the menu. Adding heavy weapons to Veterans will hinder their mobility too much. On the other hand I can simply take more LRBT and possibly a Command Vanquisher (without Pask), would that be better the the above setup? Any other ideas for first turn pressure without pigeon-holing myself into a static gun line? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3670424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Solution to 4: Flakk missiles for your Veterans and ccs, you have 4 in total so that gives you 4 anti air missiles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3670440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I don't like flakk missiles. Or rather I do, but I think they're far too expensive :( More tanks would be useful, but I think your infantry:vehicle ration is skewed enough so it might not be a good idea? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3670503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 Well, I had an idea: why not play 5man Scion squad in Taurox Primes? It gives me some additional infantry firepower and fast and flexible fire support? It can be expensive as hell though, so not sure it will a good idea. Another option might be Dark Angels allies. The Librarian can get me a 4++ bubble but the troop tax kind of bothers me. Tank : Inf might be skewed but that's the theme of the army. They have a brutal world and elite training regime, thus they have only veterans in the army and low body count while they have a high number of steel and tech due to Forge World in the Sector support given how they supply food, man power and defense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3670537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 You get more use out of those Scions if you go full 10 men and command squad (me thinks), assuming you did notice 1st rank fire 2nd rank fire now being useable with Hotshot lasguns as well. 30 ap 3 shots is very nize. And 4 meltas on that command unit, imagin what you could do having that deepstrike within the opponents lines. (i might even get there codex after all in some way or another) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3670569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 I do not want to go overboard with point costs and model count. This is still an armoured regiment and I dislike having models gathering dust, and I can not guarantee to be using a scion platoon in most games as opposed to some smaller kill teams with Primes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3670595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 You don't want to go overboard? Then what are you doing collecting Guard? Scions would fit the theme, but there's no point in getting models you won't use much Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3670623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 what sort of enemies do you usually face, and where do you find yourself lacking when facing against them? personally i'd say include a platoon so you can get more scoring bodies since when you get to the 2000-2500 level dealing with those 2 veteran squads is peanuts. perhaps a mechanised platoon, combined with some more mobile artillery Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3670625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 I usually play tournament format, so between 1500 to 1999+1, I rarely go over unless it's a 2v2. Anyway, I did some calculation. When being very generous with upgrades I get to 2k points (single FOC). So, I do not need that much more, an Inf. platoon would be too much (and not fit my Knight House). The option is between Armoured Sentinel and a Scion Platoon with command squad and 2x 5 Scion Squads in Taurox Primes with the Rocket/AC loadout for 1st turn pressure. I value first turn shooting A LOT. What you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3670643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 well, you'll need troops. at 2000 pts 30 scoring models will not be enough. in addition, we're guardsmen, and as such it's best not to waste too many upgrades on us since our 5+ save only gets us so far. also 1 armoured sentinel isn't the same amount of points as the scions platoon. how can we possibly compare them? either way, i would go for the armoured sentinels since there's a 1/6 cahnce due to the warlord trait you get to outflank them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3670660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 I reserve judgement for what I really need until I get some more games under my belt. This is mostly theory hammer here anyway. At least I narrowed it down to either Sentinels or Scions. It might turn out that a simple change of LR loadout will do the trick, or that I need LC sentinels instead of Scion or hell, maybe I do not need anything and the list in its current incarnation can take on the other armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3671045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomkapow Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 For fast attack I like heavy flamer scout sentinels outflanking. I find that they are cheap as dirt and have a chance to be devastating. I take these in almost every game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290377-how-to-proceed-with-this-army/#findComment-3672125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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