Demus Ragnok Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I would of imagined those three Legions (even if they are under-strength) assaulting your rear guard would be hard to withstand as both Guilliman and The Lion are already established as master tacticians and strategists, and well I would guess Russ and the Wolves would be in full on "destroy everyone & protect Daddy" mode. So you have a Primarch and Legion already known for their ability to fight other Legions coming at you full on from the rear while two Legions known for their tactical brilliance support them and adapt to the mess left behind their assault. Pretty much the worst Legions to have chapping on the back door when your busy out front I would say. Horus knew about their arrival before they got there so he had ample time to reconfigure his fleet. Reconfigure what fleet? The one engaged with taking the most heavily fortified planet in the Imperium. Horus had limited resources. The siege had been going on for weeks by the time Horus and the Emperor met. Momentum in an engagement is very important. As long as Horus sets the tempo he is "winning". When three more Legions engage from an unknown vector Horus loses the forward momentum and potentially the war. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290533-the-lowering-of-the-vengeful-spirits-void-shields/page/2/#findComment-3673065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I think we are forgetting something. Ultramar is already rebuilding. Third year in the Heresy and Guilliman is able to sit back, relax and manage his empire from afar. He also has four hundred worlds to draw resources from. Now, on a conservative estimate, let's say he only draws recruits from 200 worlds. Now, Fallen Angels gives us Caliban drawing and readying ~4,000 recruits over three training cycles. That's 1,667 recruits. From one world. Now, because its the Great Crusade era, let's say the training cycle is three years. So if Guilliman started recruiting in the third tear of the Heresy, by year six, he'd have access to a potential 300,000 new Astartes. Horus has that possibility to contend with. A potential 300,000 plus coming at his unprotected, weakened, rear flank. He just got caught with his pants down as far as he's concerned. But if he can kill the Emperor before they reach him, and broadcast the death throughout the Imperium, he'll break the back of the Loyalists. If a Primarch's death resonates throughout his Legion, imagine how far and wide the Emperor's death will resonate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290533-the-lowering-of-the-vengeful-spirits-void-shields/page/2/#findComment-3673103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Interestingly enough, I have now adopted the opinion that it would be cool if ALL the Legions were at Terra in some capacity. I could see the Morragul Clan and Raven Guard playing a part in the defense of the Palace, and it isn't far off to assume that in a series where all the main characters can't die that Vulkan could come back to life and rally the Salamanders to participate in the siege as well. The Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves could do their part too. Maybe it won't be every Legion manning the walls, but it would be really cool for Terra to become the conflict in human history with every legion throwing itself at one another until each legion is down to a few tens of thousands (to make sense of the numbers of second founding chapters and the fact that Heresy veterans are few and far between in the Eye). I think the number of second founding chapters is about to go up dramatically. Weren't the current numbers written down when it was assumed that the average Legion had 10.000 Astartes? The Ultramarines were said to have the most, with 23, but in Void Stalker, when the Ultramarines and their successor chapters attack the VIIIth Legion at Tsagualsa it sure reads as a lot more than that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290533-the-lowering-of-the-vengeful-spirits-void-shields/page/2/#findComment-3673191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 There were 23 that could be remembered as Ultramarine Second Founding Chapters. Remember(haha!) that by the time 40K rolls around, the Imperium will have forgotten more than it can learn, just about its own history. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290533-the-lowering-of-the-vengeful-spirits-void-shields/page/2/#findComment-3673268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Though the other part of me feels that Loken really does need to take some serious scalps sometime soon, as does Garro... This one is easy to fix. Graham McNeil could do an entire novel about the Emperor's Children at the Siege, starting with Garro killing Lucius, then he resurrects and Loken kills him, and so on and so forth until all the Knights Errant have killed him at least once. Sounds like something I've already read and something I feel I'm going to read again from McNeill, indeed. Allow me to say this simple thing : if Loken happens to lower the shields of the Vengeful Spirit, I may detonate a few well placed bombs. Horus knew about their arrival before they got there so he had ample time to reconfigure his fleet. Indeed. He just had to use the brilliant "I WIN" tactic Pollux used at Phall to... win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290533-the-lowering-of-the-vengeful-spirits-void-shields/page/2/#findComment-3673272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Though the other part of me feels that Loken really does need to take some serious scalps sometime soon, as does Garro... This one is easy to fix. Graham McNeil could do an entire novel about the Emperor's Children at the Siege, starting with Garro killing Lucius, then he resurrects and Loken kills him, and so on and so forth until all the Knights Errant have killed him at least once. Sounds like something I've already read and something I feel I'm going to read again from McNeill, indeed. Allow me to say this simple thing : if Loken happens to lower the shields of the Vengeful Spirit, I may detonate a few well placed bombs. > Horus knew about their arrival before they got there so he had ample time to reconfigure his fleet. Indeed. He just had to use the brilliant "I WIN" tactic Pollux used at Phall to... win. I don't remember Pollux winning a Phall. I remember the Iron Warriors fleet being too ponderous to rapidly redeploy once their assault stalled, and the Imperial Fists using their mastery of void warfare to make the Iron Warriors pay for their miscalculation before the Chaos Gods let Dorn's message get through the storm and the Imperial Fists withdrawing while their heavier ships sacrificed themselves. I certainly don't remember it being some kind of I Win button. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290533-the-lowering-of-the-vengeful-spirits-void-shields/page/2/#findComment-3673289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 im pretty sure it will still be horus that lowers the shields. however at the same time i still think there will be an abby vs little horus showdown, and loken still has a certain individual to deal with. sevatar will end up going up on his one against some word bearers who try to sacrifice him, declaring he wants no part in their demonpoodoo ends up doing malcador a favor by killing them, who in turn offers him grey knight fun times. that one you see no resolution too but sev is never seen again. Khârn going nuts kills someone named, we get to see raldoron vs malcharion for real, raum comes back summoned, spends half his time trying to eat erebus. and thats all i can think of for now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290533-the-lowering-of-the-vengeful-spirits-void-shields/page/2/#findComment-3673291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I was extrapolating, Marshal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290533-the-lowering-of-the-vengeful-spirits-void-shields/page/2/#findComment-3673292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Raum had not loyalty to Argel Tal, and I sincerely doubt A D-B will resurrect him to go after Erebus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290533-the-lowering-of-the-vengeful-spirits-void-shields/page/2/#findComment-3673300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 erubus cost him his vessel. plus i think raum liked argal tal in his own twisted demon way. kind of like carver hale Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290533-the-lowering-of-the-vengeful-spirits-void-shields/page/2/#findComment-3673307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 There were 23 that could be remembered as Ultramarine Second Founding Chapters. Remember(haha!) that by the time 40K rolls around, the Imperium will have forgotten more than it can learn, just about its own history. Not to mention that the best information they can get comes from an apocryphal source, which contradicts other apocryphal sources. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290533-the-lowering-of-the-vengeful-spirits-void-shields/page/2/#findComment-3673353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.