HonorGuard squad in a rhino?

[Tiger9gamer]

so I'm thinking of doing a raptor unit to go alongside Issodan the stealth pimp, and the thought sprung to mind: what If instead of an 8 man sternguard squad, I bring a 7 man honorguard one in a rhino? i know i know it's not an assault vehicle, but  they have a better armor save and they can bully squads in assault after they get out of the rhino. I have used the sternguard a lot, but i have been wishing they are tougher in recent games, as there isn't a lot of targets rich for the hellfire rounds. I don't know, as my sternies have been getting flambe'd and encircled while getting taken apart in my last few games. They would be in assault by turn 3 though, as they would get in faces turn 1.


What do you think? should I stick with a scouting sternguard squad? or should I go for an honorguard one?

[Captain Idaho]

It just feels so risky. You won't get a turn 2 charge and will be lucky to get a turn three charge. Better off in a Drop Pod I fear.

[IK Viper]

I have to agree with Idaho unless your using RG of WS CT's in which case I still think that he Rhino is a god option.  You want to avoid having one, non shooting unit in a pod and an army of Scounting Rhinos because if your going 2nd, your kinda sending those guys in alone.

[Tiger9gamer]

no, i ment these will be a part of a scouting rhino attack. they will be driving up with a lot of other marines.

[Azash]

We if they can scout forward that means they get a little farther up before the Rhino gets popped and a storm of fire power comes down on them. Look at it this way would that build survive (with effective numbers) for two turns against Eldar or Tau? A 2+ save is good but its not like Eldar guardians can get ap2 shots, tau drop ap2 pie plates, etc...but they do.

 

Normally I like Rhinos but putting that high value of a squad in one your daring your opponent almost forcing them to go after that first. Now are you planning perhaps to use that as a diversion for something else?

[GreyCrow]

Hey Tiger,

 

My current musing the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics is that it's not interesting to take a dedicated transport for the scout move. It's much more efficient to go for the Drop Pod route rather than the scout move in order to position your units. They cost as much as a Rhino, and can carry the same model and are equipped with the same weapons. The pros of the Drop Pod is more resistant armour so you won't give out killpoint to your opponent. Especially a scouting Rhino that is a big easy "shoot me" target, so that the enemy can get first blood.

 

For positionning, the Drop Pod is better. You are not limited to the 12" move, although you can scatter, the risk is greatly reduced because of the Inertial Dampeners or whatever they call it. While you have to take units in reserve with the Drop Pod assault that come on later turns, think of it that way. If you plan to use the Outflank rule, you have a 44% chance of it coming on the turn you want and the side you want. With Drop Pod, it's a 66% chance of coming every turn and with the greater reliability, you'll be opening the front where you want.

 

The only units I see that would benefit from the scout rule is units that :

A) Can't take dedicated transports

B) Are more efficient at long range

 

From the Codex and the fact that the scout move doesn't include units with the bulky/very bulky rule, this is extremely limiting. I only see Devastators as being interesting, so you can get a better position. You can't even attach independent characters to get the Bulky/Very Bulky units to move forward (reference sheet at the back of the book). Other than that for your positionning needs, then Drop Pod are better.

 

Actually, I just noticed on the reference page that the CT contradicts the CT indicated at the beginning of the Codex... Meaning that only stealth isn't confered to Bulky/Very Bulky units, but that scout still is in place...

OMG, gotta confirm that with Games Workshop asap !! That means scouting Land Raiders, Terminators and assault marines...

[Tiger9gamer]

Grey, I remember debateing with out on that, and I see your point! however, I don't have any other option besides rhinos at the moment, so I may be stuck with them. also, I like the thought of mobile war more than a javelin tossed at the neck! 

 

I see your point though, and I hope to try some drop pods in the future, maybe with that sentinels of terra ruleing! Could I still bring Issoman? that guy is the bomb!

[GreyCrow]

I understand your point, and I'm not going to debate this any further, hehe ;)

 

Make sure that the opponent has to choose between the honour guard and another target, otherwise he is going to dedicate all his firepower on them. It is better to either have a back up if they wipe them than not, or having 2 menacing squads at half strength. ;)

 

Also, I had a bit of reflexion regarding AV11 and 12 vehicles. In larger points games, they are going to be less survivable than in lower points games, for 2 reasons :

1) With higher points, they will bring more anti-tank weapons or weapons geared to kill stronger tanks, so AV11 becomes as thin as paper armour.

2) Because we virtually play on the same battle table, higher points count means higher density of anti-tank weapons and more overlapping lines of fire.

 

AV11 & 12 work really well in lower points games, below 750 they are king and below 1000pts they perform as you would expect a low armour would perform. At higher point counts, you can play them as infantry.

Because they can be considered as infantry, weight of numbers is key. Bringing as many Rhinos as you can, 6 or 7.

The Razorback spam as a way to advance your troops is a bad strategy, however. Razorback shine in lower points games, and if they work well at that point count, I would keep them in the backline until the armies have been thinned out a lot, provide supporting fire with their heavy weapons, then smash forward in the later turns when they are less exposed to high density of high strength weapons.

[tdemayo]

I think that as a backup to 3-4 other squads in Rhinos, the honor guard could accompany the initial rush and countercharge any threatening units on the next turn. Kantor might be fun to accompany them, giving the whole force +1 attack.

[Tiger9gamer]

As for other threats, I have an imperial knight and a battle of keylk (ignores cover) executioner for some fun. although the knight usually dies turn 1.

[Paulochromis]

so more an an Imperial Might, really.