++Discussion Area: New Space Wolves Codex Bet Thread++

[Valerian]

So, one of the latest rumors over on Faeit 212 is that the Space Wolves codex is going to be released this fall, rather than the codex for the Blood Angels.  I'm highly skeptical, but this would be a welcome change, especially as our codex is 6 months older than theirs, thus giving us 'seniority' (not that that has ever affected GW's release schedule).  

 

One of the things that they've put into place over on the Baal sub-forum is a 'bet thread' as a just-for-fun-project to see who guesses the highest number of potential codex changes correctly.  The purpose of this thread is to borrow this idea from our Battle Brothers and apply it here in The Fang, for the upcoming (either this year, or next) codex for our beloved Vlka Venryka.  I'd like to put our heads together to come up with 25 or 30 good yes/no questions here in this thread, with open discussion welcome.  Once we settle on the 'best' questions, I'll open a corresponding thread, which will be pinned, where we will place our "bets."

 

To start things off, I'll propose the following as examples and possible questions for inclusion in the list:

 

1.  Will keep the Leaders of the Pack rule (i.e. extra HQ slots/percentage and no duplication of heroes/characters).

 

2.  Will keep Counter-attack and Acute Senses special rules throughout the army.

 

3.  Will see the Leman Russ tank reincorporated into the army.

 

4.  Grey Hunters will keep "ultra-grit" weapons load-out (i.e. Bolter, Bolt Pistol, and CCW as default).

 

5.  Grey Hunters will keep the option for a 'free' Special Weapon when taking max pack size of 10 models.

 

6.  Wolf Guard will keep the Pack Leaders rule (i.e. ability to split off to lead other packs).

 

7.  Independent Characters will still be able to purchase Sagas.

 

8.  Some sort of Monstrous Creature (or similar) will be added as a unit option.

 

9.  Will get Venerable Dreadnoughts as a HQ option again.

 

10.  Claws (Blood, Sky, and Swift) units will get additional Special Close Combat Weapon options (i.e. more than just one per pack).

 

11.  Some sort of Flyer will be added as a a unit option.

 

12.  Frost Blades will become Chapter Relics.

 

13.  Long Fangs will lose Fire Control special rule.

 

14.  Will get a 13th Company/Lost Company Supplement.

 

15.  Wolf Priest will get some option to grant FNP to attached unit.

 

16.  Wolf Standard will become a Relic, or otherwise more limited option upgrade (1 per army).

 

17.  Rune Priest will get a unique Psychic Power table.

 

EDIT:

 

18. We will get access to Centurions.

 

19.  We will get a new vehicle that is unique to the Chapter.

 

20. Runic weapons will lose ability to deny all psychic powers within range.

 

21. There will be a way to make Wolf Scouts troops.

 

22. Iron Priests will be selected like vanilla Tech Marines (no longer Elites). 

 

23. Wolf Guard Terminators will become a separate unit entry to Wolf Guard in Power Armour.

 

24. Lone Wolves will give up a victory point in missions they survive, unless they kill a MC or Walker.

 

25. All Claw units (Blood, Sky, and Swift) will get WS 4.

 

26.  Will introduce a special character Iron Priest.

 

27.  Bran Redmaw will be introduced as a special character.

 

28.  Rune Priests and/or Wolf Priest will gain Thunderwolf Mount option. 

29.  Each Great Company will get its own unique special rules (a la Chapter Tactics).

30.  Canis Wolfborn will be dropped from the codex.

 

31.   Runic Weapons will enhance new 7e version of Deny the Witch.

 

32.  Will reintroduce Runic Charms.

35.  Will make Wulfen a unit option.

36.  Will introduce new Sagas.

 

37.   Logan Grimnar will get a 4th Wound.

 

38.  Thunderwolf Cavalry Leadership will improve.

 

39.  Wolf Guard Pack Leader will become an upgrade option for each pack (vice joining at the beginning of the game).

 

40.  Will introduce additional "Frost" weapon types (e.g. Stave/Maul).

 

41.  Will allow "bulk buy" of 1-3 Lone Wolves for 1 Elites choice.

 

42.  Will introduce a unique new Dreadnought type.

 

43.  All Claws packs (Blood, Swift, Sky) will go to maximum of 15 models.

 

EDIT 2

 

44.  There will be at least two Formations included in the codex.

 

45.  Lone Wolves will be able to purchase skills (special rules) as upgrades.

 

46.  Wolf Guard will be able to lead Sky Claws packs.

 

 

V

[DobbyKroket]

18: We will get acces to centurions

[mactire]

19: We get a stupid named/designed vehicle/flyer

[viddar]

20. Runic weapons will no longer be able to deny all psychic powers within range.

 

21. There will be a way to make wolf scouts troops.

 

22. Iron priests will no longer be elites and will be selected like vanilla tech marines.

 

23. Wolf guard terminators will have their own separate unit entry.

 

24. Lone wolves will give up a victory point in missions they survive, unless they kill a MC or walker.

 

25. "claw" units gain WS 4.

[pedrogzc]

HOPE to see that number 10 and 24...

[skeletoro]

I kinda hope they make wolf standards come in 2 flavours - one for all grey hunters and one as a relic.

Same for frost blades. Allow all wolf guard etc to equip them but put several unique relics in the armoury for ICs.

[Valerian]

Keep them coming, lads and lasses.  Some good additions here, so far.

 

V

[Arez]

maybe the option for Ragnar to have Runic Armor,Special character Iron priest

[skeletoro]

26.Rune priests on thunderwolves.

27.Great company special rules ala chapter tactics. E.g. (firing from the hip here) pick Bran's great company, grey hunters get behind enemy lines. Pick Ragnar, all units get relentless the turn they disembark from a drop pod.

28. Canis Wolfborn is removed from the codex and replaced with Bran Redmaw.

29. Wolf scouts get a buff to reflect their elite status. Camo cloaks and access to stealth (as well as 1 or 2 point sniper rifles) seems reasonable.

30. Rune priests are 65 points, can take mastery 2 for 25 points, but

31. runic weapon 4+ bubble is removed.

32. However, space wolf codex powers are AMAZING, and

33. due to release after 7e really take advantage of new mechanics therein. Runic weapons now give sweet bonus to dispel/psychic pool mechanic - allowing a rune priest to efficiently expend dice to negate enemy powers (within 24", perhaps)

34. RUNIC CHARMS ARE BACK, BABY!

35. New models for new flier, wulfen, and a wolf lord (either ragnar or bran, but maybe just a plastic clam pack generic one).

36. New sagas: one specifically to buff challenges, one to provide psychic pool related effect.

[skeletoro]

The sad thing about getting access to the Lehman Russ is that FW have made all these pretty legion versions of a few IG artillery. But presumably there won't be a similar treatment for the Leman Russ (tank) from FW given that (I think?) it wasn't used during the heresy.

 

That said, it's not open-topped so I guess it doesn't have to look a whole lot different.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Actually I rather prefer Ragnar be given Eternal Warrior. That would justify his current cost without making him too overpowered. His Frost Blade can remain S5 and AP3. Nasty but not overpowered in duels, while his abilities are mainly for buffing his unit as oppose to dueling alone like Grimnar can. My feeling is that most people think Ragnar is good but not justified for his cost.

 

No. 12: Frost Blades becoming Chapter relics: I vote for this one, but in addition, I'm predicting that Frost blades will become just S: User AP2 swords. That's all. A simple change like that would make them tactically viable without being too overpowered. A wolf Lord with a choice between Wolf Claw and Frost blade will then have to balance the pros and cons of having AP3 but rerollable to wound, or AP2 at S:User, no reroll.

[logun]

37. Logan gains another wound (hope all wolf lords do) and is still a monster.

38. long fangs keep fire control and continue to give the vannilla devestators the finger and show them how it gets done.

39. thunder wolves get another point of leadership to show they are an elite wolf guard unit. and hopefully their storm sheilds are cheaper.

40. Bjorns get a little cheaper or more sturdy

41. make fenrisian wolves troops if the war lord rides a thunderwolf. 

42. maybe a slight decrease in points for certain wolf guard weapons combinations, TH/SS for example.

[DobbyKroket]

37. Logan gains another wound (hope all wolf lords do) and is still a monster.

38. long fangs keep fire control and continue to give the vannilla devestators the finger and show them how it gets done.

39. thunder wolves get another point of leadership to show they are an elite wolf guard unit. and hopefully their storm sheilds are cheaper.

40. Bjorns get a little cheaper or more sturdy

41. make fenrisian wolves troops if the war lord rides a thunderwolf. 

42. maybe a slight decrease in points for certain wolf guard weapons combinations, TH/SS for example.

 

41: there is a saga for that

[logun]

 

 

37. Logan gains another wound (hope all wolf lords do) and is still a monster.

38. long fangs keep fire control and continue to give the vannilla devestators the finger and show them how it gets done.

39. thunder wolves get another point of leadership to show they are an elite wolf guard unit. and hopefully their storm sheilds are cheaper.

40. Bjorns get a little cheaper or more sturdy

41. make fenrisian wolves troops if the war lord rides a thunderwolf. 

42. maybe a slight decrease in points for certain wolf guard weapons combinations, TH/SS for example.

 

41: there is a saga for that

 

which one are you refering to brother.

 

do you mean canis wolfborn makes them troops and the saga of the wolfkin raises their leadership and iniative.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Have to disagree Kasper, AP3 isn't 'not overpowered' in duels, it's practically worthless, 2+ saves are simply too common on the sort of character you want to be duelling. Frost weapons shouldn't be Relics, they're too commonly mentioned in the fluff (which I know doesn't mean anything, but I still hope we don't get Clan Raukaaned) to be limited to 1/army. Don't know the best way to do it (other than go back to old power weapons, which is unlikely), but relic only would suck.

 

We get the ability to take 2 specials and a WGPL in a squad of 10.

 

Frost Maces (assuming the Frost Blade/Axe will stay as they are)

 

1-3 Lone Wolves for 1 Elites choice (assuming some abomination with these 'unbound' doesn't render the FoC pointless)

 

A unique dreadnought type. BAs get Furioso and Librarian, SM get Ironclad, DAs get Mortis (as do SMs), we're meant to have so many more dread hulls than everyone else, where's out special dread?

[Kasper_Hawser]

I guess our expectations boil down to what we want Ragnar to be: for me, I want somebody decent in combat yet more of an army buffer as opposed to a CC monster. Logan already does a fantastic job at buffing army with saga of majesty and the granting of special rules, while at the same time remaining a combat beast with EW and Morkai. 

 

So do I want Ragnar to be able to standup to a daemon prince? Not really, I prefer him to make the army better instead of being a CC monster. Which he does well with his war howl. That's why I only asked for Eternal Warrior for Ragnar, which would justify his cost really. And to me AP3 isn't too bad, I think most monstrous creatures are 3+ at best anyway. But yeah, maybe he needs Runic armour so at least he can tarpit certain units who are also stuck with AP3.

 

Anyway, this might be offtopic, figuring out ways to buff Ragnar. For now, I just pray Grey Hunters stay the way they are. Everything else can be screwed but at least let us keep the title of most effective troops in the game.

[DobbyKroket]

 

37. Logan gains another wound (hope all wolf lords do) and is still a monster.

38. long fangs keep fire control and continue to give the vannilla devestators the finger and show them how it gets done.

39. thunder wolves get another point of leadership to show they are an elite wolf guard unit. and hopefully their storm sheilds are cheaper.

40. Bjorns get a little cheaper or more sturdy

41. make fenrisian wolves troops if the war lord rides a thunderwolf. 

42. maybe a slight decrease in points for certain wolf guard weapons combinations, TH/SS for example.

 

41: there is a saga for that

 

which one are you refering to brother.

 

do you mean canis wolfborn makes them troops and the saga of the wolfkin raises their leadership and iniative.

 

sorry, I was confused that one and the one that ups the initiative and ld of the wolves

[tjdudey]

Want Iron Priest to get optional Servo Harness upgrade.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Not sure if this is quite the right place for this, but I hope with our Dex come good model releases

 

Specifically

 

New Ragnar

A wolf priest rune priest combo kit

And a new Bjorn

[Darkseer]

http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/return-of-wolf.html

2 months time potentially...

[Valerian]

Gang, thanks for contributing.  Remember, the point of this thread isn't necessarily to "wish-list" (we have done that in separate threads), but rather to make a list of yes or no questions about potential adjustments that might occur in our rumored upcoming codex.  The next step is to collect votes. 

 

For example, rather than saying, "I hope Iron Priests get an optional Servo Harness," please say: "42.  Iron Priests will get an option to take a Servo Harness."

 

However, in the big picture, having that particular option for one individual character isn't that big of a deal.  I'd rather focus on those yes/no outcomes that are more likely to have a bigger impact to our army lists and games.

 

Carry on,

 

V

[Karack Blackstone]

43 (?): All Claws packs (Blood, Swift, Sky) will go to 15 in maximum number.

 

I figure no, however would fix so many issues, it sounds like.

 

44 (?): Blood Claws will be at least one to two points lower than Grey Hunters per pack member base.

 

I personally would love to see this one, as well as the above.  270 for 15 SkyClaws sounds nice, just with the drop in Assault Marine points it would be interesting.  The fun that can be had with 15 flying, frothing at the mouth SkyClaws, it's amazing to see what tries to tie them up to lock them in CC, that's for sure.

[DobbyKroket]

43 (?): All Claws packs (Blood, Swift, Sky) will go to 15 in maximum number.

 

I figure no, however would fix so many issues, it sounds like.

 

44 (?): Blood Claws will be at least one to two points lower than Grey Hunters per pack member base.

 

I personally would love to see this one, as well as the above.  270 for 15 SkyClaws sounds nice, just with the drop in Assault Marine points it would be interesting.  The fun that can be had with 15 flying, frothing at the mouth SkyClaws, it's amazing to see what tries to tie them up to lock them in CC, that's for sure.

 

45: other claws (swift and sky) will drop the same amount of points as the blood claws do (you pay extra for the bike/jump pack)

[Valerian]

Recommend y'all go here for further Frost Weapon discussion.

 

And you can look here for discussion on Ragnar Blackmane's weapons, wargear, and special rules.

 

 

Valerian

[Grimtooth]

This really should be number 1 as it is a certainty,

 

1.  Once rumors of codex contents hit the web, the cries of doom and gloom will match those heard on Prospero.