Dimensional Key, waste or potential worth?

[incinerator950]

Right, sorry if I'm avoiding the search function, but it's a pain in the ass using my laptop without a working mouse.

Anyway, it's my day off and I decided to look over one of the never talked about artifacts.  It's basically a joke replacement for Icon beacons, but it seems rather... interesting to give you a terrain bubble to mess with your opponents.  Strictly speaking this looks like it should only be used for Turn 2 Rapid assaults, and that's basically just Bike/Raptor territory.

Anyone use it to some success, anyone see its use or figured out the mitigating reason to use it over having a Relaegis? 

[Scribe]

Total waste of points, it had potential but never made it...

[Kythnos]

I really tried to make it work in a few games, but basically the need to attack early on with this artifact made its bearers die far too often with too little support. I might try it again on a winged DP, but for the time being I'm done with this item.

[darknightdrako]

If it only worked by killing something in the shooting phase and not in cc then yes it will be better.

[Iron_Within]

It is pretty much the biggest disappointment in the whole codex (which in itself is "Codex: Disappointment). It has the most hopeless nearly there rules of anything. It was are only option for a teleport homer and it doesn't work at all. It's a complete waste in every way, the difficult terrain ability is a minor perk (but only extremely minor).

[Hiskrtapps]

My main list is designed around deep strike and I use Dimensional Key.

My deep strike units are guided in almost 75% of cases.

[daveNYC]

What are you using to keep everything in reserve until turn 3 (at least)?  I'm assuming you're not getting turn one assaults.

[the jeske]

Maybe he plays against a lot of fast melee armies .

[daveNYC]

True.  Like a lot of things it'd depend on the local meta.  Still, getting a turn one character kill is not the easiest thing for CSM.  Been a while since I looked at the Key's description, it does require a dead character, not some random mook, right?

[Hiskrtapps]

What are you using to keep everything in reserve until turn 3 (at least)? I'm assuming you're not getting turn one assaults.

I develop these solutions to make it works:

1. I use communication relais to control as good as possible my deep strike reserve

2. I use a fast and reliable CC unit to carry Dimensional key. I tryed lots (Juggy lord + spawn, daemon prince...) and finally I setup the best choice: nurgle lord on bike with powerfist 4+ inv with 5 nurgle spawn

3. I incremented number of deep strike units so that I can predict an expected average behaviour of the list. Actual list has 4, I'm trying for 6.

 

Sometimes key activates in turn 2.

Usually in turn 3.

Sometimes later than 3th and sometimes it doesn't activate at all.

It depends by each game.

 

The importat thing is that list must work even if key does not activate (see point 3). Obviously key activation increments list effectiveness and decreases risk.

[brother_contagion]

 

What are you using to keep everything in reserve until turn 3 (at least)?  I'm assuming you're not getting turn one assaults.

I develop these solutions to make it works:

1. I use communication relais to control as good as possible my deep strike reserve

2. I use a fast and reliable CC unit to carry Dimensional key. I tryed lots (Juggy lord + spawn, daemon prince...) and finally I setup the best choice: nurgle lord on bike with powerfist 4+ inv with 5 nurgle spawn

3. I incremented number of deep strike unit so that I can predict an expected average behaviour of the list. Actual list has 4, I'm trying for 6.

 

Sometimes key activates in turn 2.

Usually in turn 3.

Sometimes later than 3th and sometimes it doesn't activate at all.

It depends by each game.

 

The importat thing is that list must work even if key does not activate (see point 3). Obviously key activation increments list effectiveness and decreases risk.

 

I've been thinking of a similar way on using the Key. As of now I have a winged DP and a Nurgle Lord on a bike, but have yet to purchase any Spawn.

[Kilofix]

Not that great in normal AoW because you usually come in from Reserve by Turn 2 and you can't activate the key by then.

 

But I've found that it is awesome in Apoc. Especially if you're bringing in or bringing back a large scary Deep Striking unit and that precision can be devestating to your opponent.

[Hiskrtapps]

With relais only 25% of your units enter on turn two (and it's not said they cannot hit - 1/3 times - or scatter few only few inches).

[Warsmith Aznable]

It's too bad you can't just slaughter some Cultists to make a beacon.

[incinerator950]

 

What are you using to keep everything in reserve until turn 3 (at least)? I'm assuming you're not getting turn one assaults.

I develop these solutions to make it works:

1. I use communication relais to control as good as possible my deep strike reserve

2. I use a fast and reliable CC unit to carry Dimensional key. I tryed lots (Juggy lord + spawn, daemon prince...) and finally I setup the best choice: nurgle lord on bike with powerfist 4+ inv with 5 nurgle spawn

3. I incremented number of deep strike units so that I can predict an expected average behaviour of the list. Actual list has 4, I'm trying for 6.

 

Sometimes key activates in turn 2.

Usually in turn 3.

Sometimes later than 3th and sometimes it doesn't activate at all.

It depends by each game.

 

The importat thing is that list must work even if key does not activate (see point 3). Obviously key activation increments list effectiveness and decreases risk.

This is what I read on a few other forums, which is why I prompted the discussion here.  Would you mind telling me what your deepstrike list entails, or specifically what you're deep striking?  I'm working on a mayhem pack and would love to support it more.

[Hiskrtapps]

 

 

What are you using to keep everything in reserve until turn 3 (at least)? I'm assuming you're not getting turn one assaults.

I develop these solutions to make it works:

1. I use communication relais to control as good as possible my deep strike reserve

2. I use a fast and reliable CC unit to carry Dimensional key. I tryed lots (Juggy lord + spawn, daemon prince...) and finally I setup the best choice: nurgle lord on bike with powerfist 4+ inv with 5 nurgle spawn

3. I incremented number of deep strike units so that I can predict an expected average behaviour of the list. Actual list has 4, I'm trying for 6.

 

Sometimes key activates in turn 2.

Usually in turn 3.

Sometimes later than 3th and sometimes it doesn't activate at all.

It depends by each game.

 

The importat thing is that list must work even if key does not activate (see point 3). Obviously key activation increments list effectiveness and decreases risk.

This is what I read on a few other forums, which is why I prompted the discussion here.  Would you mind telling me what your deepstrike list entails, or specifically what you're deep striking?  I'm working on a mayhem pack and would love to support it more.

 

I first tryed 3 terminator units (5 model each) + 2 oblit units.

Now I use 4 nurgle-obliterator units (3 model each). It's the best build till now.

Then I also would like to test Mayhem Pack (full-fire set-up) + 3 nurgle-obliterator units...

[Excessus]

4 units of Oblits? I'm guessing allies or 2k+ games...

 

 

As for the lord, I'd throw a multi-wound model at him, heck, most MCs would destroy him before they'd get taken out themselves.

[Hiskrtapps]

4 units of Oblits? I'm guessing allies or 2k+ games...

 

 

As for the lord, I'd throw a multi-wound model at him, heck, most MCs would destroy him before they'd get taken out themselves.

I play 1750pt with crimson slautghter allies (slightly better than black legion for these purpose).

I only have few points in troops (thats could be a problem).

 

Sure a monstrous creature can kill the lord.. but this is the game. It depends how I move my units and how you move yours...

[Iron Father Ferrum]

My codex is still in a box somewhere. . . for the key to activate, do you need to kill an Independent Character, or just any character?  Like, can your Lord murderize a Sergeant and activate the Key that way?  Because if so, giving him wings (or MoT and a Disc) and sticking him with Raptors for a bodyguard might not be a horrible idea.

[Excessus]

He needs to kill anything, but in close combat. Even on a bike or wings he won't be in combat until turn 2, when 67% of all your DS:ers have already arrived.

[incinerator950]

Yes.  It's ironic, but for the key to work you need to delay your deepstrike.  Ironically the thing to help your reserves, you need to do the opposite and re-roll them to stay until you're in a better position.  Hence the Aegis-relay.  Albeit, 95 points seems a bit costly for this maneuver, especially since it requires nurgle biker lords to get it to deploy.

[Hiskrtapps]

He needs to kill anything, but in close combat. Even on a bike or wings he won't be in combat until turn 2, when 67% of all your DS:ers have already arrived.

That's why you must use relay

 

Yes.  It's ironic, but for the key to work you need to delay your deepstrike.  Ironically the thing to help your reserves, you need to do the opposite and re-roll them to stay until you're in a better position.  Hence the Aegis-relay.  Albeit, 95 points seems a bit costly for this maneuver, especially since it requires nurgle biker lords to get it to deploy.

the list is designed around the key. 95 points are not so much. Aegis is useful to protect cultists and the nurgle biker lord is a good choise anyway (it will be better the Crimson Slauther Lord version with 2+/4+ with horn but the key don't permit you to use this).

 

Real problem is that you have to maximize number of deep strike units and the troops (10x cultists) remain very few (3 or 2  depending from the build).

It means you are able to keep objective in your field but you can only contest the oppent field ones deepstriping.

[Excessus]

Though, with cultists hiding and several expensive heavy-hitter units in reserve for at least two whole turns, the opponent is pretty much left to nuke down that lord pretty hard. Even a "soft" Tau, Eldar, GK or IG army can dish out enough firepower to slaughter the lord and his unit in two turns...at least with my usual opponents...

[Hiskrtapps]

Though, with cultists hiding and several expensive heavy-hitter units in reserve for at least two whole turns, the opponent is pretty much left to nuke down that lord pretty hard. Even a "soft" Tau, Eldar, GK or IG army can dish out enough firepower to slaughter the lord and his unit in two turns...at least with my usual opponents...

That lord is the hardest chaos can field (3W, 6T, cover from bike, fast); This Lord is able to face a wrigthknight. Its unit is compose by 5 nurgle spawn that shield it.

Sure it can die (sometimes it happens, noone is saying it's invulnerable);

Field it not in the middle of opponent army and it can work.

 

Many times happens that opponent don't want to be assaulted by biker lord unit and move back to avoid it. So key does not trigger very soon but on the field you has a tactic advantage.. and your deep strike unit will come anyway, 1/3 hitting, many scattering some inches (but oblys - and hellbrutes -  have weapons to fire from distance if they scatter too far), few failing deepstrike (but you can also be lucky on perils...). As I wrote above, key activation increments list effectiveness and decreases risk.. but army can work anyway..

 

So, i'm not saying list is the best you are but it works most times...

[the jeske]

Field it not in the middle of opponent army and it can works.

How do you hide from double D templates that have a huge range and move almost like flyers ?

 

Deep striking in 6th is good , when it is either fully controled or is first turn alfa strike . Plus are deep striking units are nothing awesome to begin with, but that is another story.