When friends clash over rules...

[CommodusXIII]

Of course, I'm not even sure there's going to be a 40k in a month, what with GW going the nuclear option and removing the force org chart as a requirement altogether.

 

Let's keep the discussion on topic, and leave the rumor-mongering in its sequestered area.

[Forté]

So, to sum up:

• IG w/ IK = OK
• IG w/ IK and SM (count as CSM) = OK
• IG w/ IK and CSM = illegal

If your friends are not allowing (1) or (2) because of "fluff reasons", then yes they're being jerks. If they're not allowing (3), it's because (3) technically isn't a legal list and they're within their rights to refuse to play it. They should still call a spade a spade, rather than hiding behind fluff reasons.

 

No matter what spammy, overpowered, cheese-brained list someone comes up with, if it's legal it's legal. No matter how great, fluffy, awesomely-converted an army you come up with, if it's illegal it's illegal. House rules are optional, and everyone has the right to follow Rules As Written if they so desire.

Actually, IG (AM) can take CSM as Allies of Convenience. The Knights sit outside the normal allies IIRC so that is totally legal. And tempting too.

[CommodusXIII]

You're almost right.  Knights do not take a standard Allied Detachment slot, but their codex yields this little nugget:

 

 

Note that the Imperial Knights may have a different relationship to the models from an army’s primary detachment, and the models that make up that army’s ‘regular’ allied detachment (assuming there are any). For example, if an Imperial Knight was part of an army where the primary detachment were Imperial Guard and the allied detachment were from the Tau Empire, then the Knight would treat the Guardsmen as Battle Brothers, and the Tau as Desperate Allies.

 

You cannot have two Come the Apocalypse armies in the same list, per the Rulebook, so IK and CSM cannot both be included as allies to IG.  It's similar to how the Inquisition Detachment works.

[Combat_Vet]

Of course, I'm not even sure there's going to be a 40k in a month, what with GW going the nuclear option and removing the force org chart as a requirement altogether[/url][/b].

This begs the question how is this a nuclear option? We didn't have a chart when we built 40K from Rogue Trader and we survived
Old players (old people) have been begging for a return to a more fluid and flexible force structure for ten years or more. Maybe GW is finally listening.

As far as the topic:
Are they denying you for friendly games or for tourny games that count towards a point total? I know it sounds terrible but I can see their point in sticking to the rules as written when it comes to league games and what not. As far as friendly games those should be open to just about anything really. Hope it all works out for you either way, after all we are all in the hobby to have fun.

[Clone]

I pressed the issue a bit more with my RAW blurb and my group are OK with a daemon knight counts as now. I clarified that there will be no csm in the same list as a knight as that would be illegal (turns out this was part of the problem in the first place). So there we go. RAW won out... Mostly.

 

Now the debate left is what colour to paint my Daemon Knight of House Drakon. Any suggestions?

[RolandTHTG]

IS there a house color scheme or God that the house fell to?

[CommodusXIII]

Here's some backgound on House Drakon.  Hopefully this will help, if this is the Traitor House you want to emulate!

House Drakon:

 

 

House Drakon were a Knight House which betrayed the Imperium during the Occlusiad War, joining the forces of the Blind King. Though their master is eventually defeated, they remain unaccounted for the next thousand years.

 

In 986.M38, the traitors of House Drakon re-emerge at the head of a twisted host of Daemon machines created by the Dark Mechanicum. The warp-forged monstrosities are finally defeated amid the desecrated ruins of the forge world, Solemnium, after the Iron Hands Space Marine Chapter brings them to battle. However, it is the actions of a single Freeblade Knight that travels with the Space Marines that determine the course of the war. Known only as Justice, the Freeblade displays an incredible aptitude for destroying the traitor Knights, earning seven confirmed kills during the course of the war. Rumours abound in the wake of the conflict of quite how the lone Knight achieved such a mastery of combat against others of his kind. Of their enigmatic ally’s past, however, the Iron Hands would not speak. Despite some of House Drakon’s Knights escaping Imperial reprisal, their strength is now greatly diminished.

 

The Blind King:

 

 

 

The Blind King was a rogue Tech Priest of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Viewing humanity as an affront to the Omnissiah, the Blind King would gather Apostles within the Mechanicus and launch the Occlusiad War, a devastating conflict that lasted over a decade. The Blind King would be killed when the Emperor Class Battleship Dominus Astra discovered his palace-warship in the Warp and destroyed it with lance fire. Without their leader his apostles swiftly scattered and the War finally came to an end.[

 

Looks like you have a lot to work with!

[RolandTHTG]

I'd use a lot of Black and Red (Dark Mechanicum) though anything that complements your Guard/Chaos is good too. 

[Clone]

Thanks guys. I play a Black Legion as my main force so black and red would fit in well with the theme (I paint my traitor guard in a similar scheme). What do you guys think about black shoulder pads and hood/carapace/whatever-you-call-the-top-bit and red for the rest of the armour plating. Maybe a gunmetal or bronze trim too.

 

What I'm thinking of now is changing my traitor guard to include some dark mechanicum units too, e.g. cultists led by a tech thralls and battle automata (infantry platoon and sentinels). I had also thought of allying in Inquisitor Karamazov and using a converted myrmidon destructor to represent him, maybe he could be one of the Blind Kings last apostles that has struck a deal with the Black Legion.