Cerbero666 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Hi guys, I was reading the Horus Heresy Extermination rules for the IF and I found something that doesn't make sense to me. The Fists get a new specific wargear called "Teleportation Transponder" which gives their Terminators and Command Squad Terminators "Deep Strike" for 15/10 points. An useful tool to use for an army integrated by Boarding Actions and Siege specialists, ok. Then there's the part that get me confused. In the Specific Imperial Fists Legion Rite Of War there's a limitation that says: "Detachments using this Rite of War may not deploy models using Deep Strike rule (and units which must deploy by this method therefore cannot be chosen as part of the detachment" I mean, what's the point of giving the IF a "Teleportation Trasponder" as one of their specific legion wargear if their specific legion Rite of War doesn't let them use it? Is there a typo or something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Not necessarily. The Rite of War is an option. You don't have to have one. The Legion-specific Rite of War is nothing more than an optional Rite of War only that specific Legion has access to. For another example of "conflict" between the Legion tie of War and the Legion, look at the Night Lords. They have a rule that if one of their units outnumbers the enemy unit in close combat, they get +1 To Wound. But their Rite of War forces you to take three compulsory Terror Squads. Now, the Terror Squads only have a maximum of ten units, that means that the core of your army list will never be able to use advantage of that rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbero666 Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share Posted May 5, 2014 Not necessarily. The Rote of War is an option. You don't have to have one. The Legion-specific Rite of War is nothing more than an optional Rite of War only that specific Legion has access to. Yeah I thought that, but I mean, the Rite of War is specific for the IF Legion, as is the new wargear, wouldn't be more logical to use them both without restrictions between them? They are elements of the same Legion rules and strategies. Well, I could just ignore it or change the Rite of War if I want deep strike, but its a pity having those two options and not being able to combine them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Well its meant to be a specific army style, to push one type of tactic over another. In this case, the Fists does not support Deep Strike most likely because Deep Strike doesn't work with it properly, or unbalances it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 It's because people would take a mass of terminators that get +1 Toughness on the turn they deep strike, when most units are vulnerable. The increased survivability means something like .25 Terminators would die to a 20 man tac squad using fury of the legion. Before being charged. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 some things in hh3 that don't make sense either: - IW legiones astartes wreck & ruin rule: re-roll penetration against buildings only is useless for grenades since krak is S6 while only neutral, debricated buodings are AV12. - IW Hammer of Olympia RoW, hail of fire: why shoot bolters instead of pistols into assault if you loose an attack doing so and shooting casualities may even make you fail the charge? - IW warsmith may have battlesmith/servo-arm yet cannot buy other Techmarine-specific Wargear (unlike Forgelord Centurions) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cohort Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I can think of 2 reasons for the IW rite of war, first rule of cool and second, almost everyone is I4 in 30k so more shooting before a charge means less guys hitting back when you reach melee and less overwatch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 The Iron Warriors Rite of War, like Breachers, requires finesse. Beside, no checks from Shooting Casulaties as a base buff is insanely good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 The Iron Warriors Rite of War, like Breachers, requires finesse. Beside, no checks from Shooting Casulaties as a base buff is insanely good. A Legion that plans everything down to the smallest decimal point and the most precise calculation requires finesse to be used? What blasphemy is this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardus Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 some things in hh3 that don't make sense either: - IW warsmith may have battlesmith/servo-arm yet cannot buy other Techmarine-specific Wargear (unlike Forgelord Centurions) Likely because a Warsmith is not and probably never was a Techmarine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 requires finesse if it being bad needed proof, there it is ;D @pedantic bob: as aren't forgelords ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 requires finesse if it being bad needed proof, there it is ;D How is the Rite of War of a Legion that calculates every move down to the smallest, most precise decimal requiring finesse a bad thing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Because it's not easy enough I guess Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Because it's not easy enough I guess I thought the point of finesse was that it wasn't easy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Which is why some people may not like it :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Which is why some people may not like it :P Ohhhhhh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Change the word from Finesse, to answer to equation. Any variables outside of the original calculation, such as thirty Imperial Fist Cataphractii deep-striking in the heart of you position, requres a recalculation to ensure the equation stays in balance. The more emotional Legions call this finesse. The Sons of Olympia call this mental agility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I am a Son of Olympia and I call it ineffective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 All this talk of Olympia makes me want to eat some gyros..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardus Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 requires finesse if it being bad needed proof, there it is ;D @pedantic bob: as aren't forgelords ... Touche, with a but........... Forgelord implies a degree of artifice. The fluff on Warsmiths implies their craftsmanship in warfare. As to why the hell they get a servoarm, other than a tribute to the old Chaos warsmith... who knows! "Iron within, iron without!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3675898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I am a Son of Olympia and I call it ineffective. Better this than Hellturkeys and armies of silly looking cultists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3676025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Well, my Adsecularis Thralls come pretty close to the latter, but I'd say that rites don't really matter anyway and that I am quite happy with my IV. objectively having the absolute best rules so far for Primarch and Legion-specific units :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3676414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'm sure that the Forgelord is the Chief Techmarine - as such has full or at least some training and immersion in the Cult Mechanicus. As for the rules - seen as outside Justaerin they're the only (iirc) Terminators who can DS outside of the getting the Warlord Trait - pretty powerful imo. especially as unlike 40k there isn't an abundance of Interceptor outside of Mechanicum or buildings such as the Castellum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3676626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molokai Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 My mortis contemptors are waiting for you... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3677538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beta galactosidase Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 requires finesse if it being bad needed proof, there it is ;D @pedantic bob: as aren't forgelords ... Touche, with a but........... Forgelord implies a degree of artifice. The fluff on Warsmiths implies their craftsmanship in warfare. As to why the hell they get a servoarm, other than a tribute to the old Chaos warsmith... who knows! "Iron within, iron without!" They're, you know this, they're siege engineers. They have to build barricades and load shells. Why officers have them is obviously that a toiling grunt can afford to put all his effort into those things when a war smith doesn't, and besides which thy Are very expensive. Anyway it's mostly for purposes of bolster defenses, not blessing of the omnissiah, in rules terms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290644-imperial-fists-rules-doubt/#findComment-3677589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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