Targetlock Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Hi Forum So I've started work on my traitor guard and am now considering options for my beastmen/veteran squad (originally used them as stormtroopers and got a couple of questions. but first, here is my normal load-out: > Veteran Squad, 2 plasma guns, meltagun, forward sentries, vox-caster: 115 So a couple of questions: 1. what is the best veteran upgrade: I'm torn between forward sentries or grenadiers (though my models don't really have much armour) 2. Is Harker worth it now? i used to like using him for the infiltrators but they lost it now :( 3. I really like the amount of firepower they can put out but what is the best weapon load-out? is a heavy flamer worth it? 4. best option for the sergeant? maybe just a boltgun? Thanks for any ideas, suggestions or tactics :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 forward sentries are 30 points cheaper (without kraks) than in the old book. Old book: forward sentries with heavy flamer: 120 points New book: forward sentries with heavy flamer: 80 points! I don't take anything on the sergeant.., Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3675312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0MMY Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I'm going for boltgun for the sergeant - wouldn't bother with power weapons (still only WS3). Also, not sure about mixing plasma guns with meltagun; I'd choose close or long range. I'm planning one squad of vets as grenadiers with 2-3 plasma and an autocannon for long range support / objective holding. As a close option I'd go for heavy flamer + 2 meltaguns + chimera... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3675434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 There is no best option. There is however a best situational option. So, what is you goal with the unit? What areas are you lacking in your army? Need more anti tank? Then go with meltas. Got problem with space marines, then the plasma guns and a missile launcher is a nice answer. What the better between sentries and grenadiers? Well again, depends on how you guys play at your local gaming location. Do you have access to a lot of terrain, or is it scarse. If there is a ton of terrain, forward sentries are a great choice. Heavy flamer is worth it of course, but only in a unit designed for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3675456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Missile launchers are a great option for vets...it's just so hard to choose one S8 shot over two S7 shots, AP be damned! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3675471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplainmikey Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 How good an option are Sniper Rifles for a squad with forward sentries and an Autocannon or Missile Launcher that sit on objectives? Better off with Ratlings? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3675497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 In my mech guard list I play 1 CCS and 3 Vets. CCS and 1 vet squad have meltas and 2 have plasmas. Since I have tanks to stay back so I put vets in chimeras to keep 'em mobile and carapace to survive longer when outside, no place for heavy weps. Having said that, weapons depend on the rest of your army. Just put the max amount of weapons on thm to make use of the BS4. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3675536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
scatmandoo Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 My vets are normally riding in a chimera or valk. I normally equip them with melta x2 and HF so then they can cover a lot of situations and drive by flaming if needed or a boost on overwatch/charging. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3675543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 How good an option are Sniper Rifles for a squad with forward sentries and an Autocannon or Missile Launcher that sit on objectives? Better off with Ratlings? not very good...I'd take the ratlings. Two sniper rifles plus a heavy weapon while six guys stand around and smoke...the ratlings get to infiltrate, shoot and still run, and have stealth, plus every model in the unit has a sniper rifle. You want snipers, you get more sniper rifles for fewer points with ratlings, and they can shoot on the move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3675652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'm Heckus Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 How good an option are Sniper Rifles for a squad with forward sentries and an Autocannon or Missile Launcher that sit on objectives? Better off with Ratlings? not very good...I'd take the ratlings. Two sniper rifles plus a heavy weapon while six guys stand around and smoke...the ratlings get to infiltrate, shoot and still run, and have stealth, plus every model in the unit has a sniper rifle. You want snipers, you get more sniper rifles for fewer points with ratlings, and they can shoot on the move. I disagree, 3 with sniper rifles (now cheaper than last book), plus a missile launcher make decent back field objective holders or stick them behind an aegis to man the quad gun with stealth gear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3675762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 however, the cost of such a unit can not compare to ratlings. point for point ratlings are the best snipers we have acces to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3675815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share Posted May 5, 2014 Ratlings are great for their points and i usually take them :) thanks for the ideas, i didn't realise i could take three special weapons and still take a heavy weapon :) new load-out: > Veteran Squad, boltgun, 3 plasma guns, missile launcher, forward sentries, vox-caster: 136 what do you reckon? aimed to deal with a wide variety of foes, i don't usually build lists towards one opponent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3675986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'm Heckus Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 however, the cost of such a unit can not compare to ratlings. point for point ratlings are the best snipers we have acces to. Yes, but vets are scoring and sniper rifles give a degree of reach (36") that the other special weapons don't have. If a squad is covering an objective in your deployment zone las guns, plasmas, and melt as aren't gonna reach. Sniper vets can hold the objective while taking pot shots at MCs along with the missile launcher or auto cannon. I'm not saying all vet squads should be fielded this way but if you running all vets they can't all run up field. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3676066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I miss old Harker with Infiltrate too. Does new Harker give Relentless to his Squad, and does that open up any new options, or is it just wishful thinking on my part? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3676204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 yeah I've been wondering this as well, and also i don't know if Harker is worth the points now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3676573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Ain't worth it if you ask me. Infiltrate was the one draw, now he takes too many points for what? Move and fire with heavy weapon? Given the range on AC and ML, not worth it, his heavy bolter? Meh. Charge after rapid fire? Wrong army ;) The only thing that could potentially work is Snipers with him to relocate better, but frankly, I do not think that snipers are all that great on Vets when you can get Ratlings (or skip snipers all together because most armies ignore pinning with either fearless or high ld and IG has better ways to mow down MC). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3676819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 My favorite load out is all three doctrines, 3x plasma guns, and a plasma pistol. Add in a plasma priest and primarus psyker, all loaded up in a valkarie or chimera. These guys are tough(for guardsmen) and can handle almost anything very well. Before people ask. Yes, you can take more than one doctrine. Quote from C:AM " may take ANY of the following doctrines." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3677077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 didn't notice that, thank for pointing it out :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3677352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Not sure I'd take the demo charge doctrine, but forward sentries PLUS grenadiers is attractive, if hideously expensive (x6=150 points!!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3677702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Thanks for the ideas and suggestions, really like the amount of BS4 firepower a veteran squad can put out :) , just didn't realise how much until this thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3677886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Yah the vets are probably my favorite unit in the new codex. They got cheaper but stayed the same rules wise. Its nice to be able to customize them as I see fit . I just wish our other units were as customizable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3677988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 yeah very true. wish rough riders got improved and had more options, but that i probably for another thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3678089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Hopefully one day... as for Veterans as has been said it depends what you need. Fortunately they have plenty of options. This is an interesting topic with good posts in; it's given me some stuff to ruminate on! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3678137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustardParty Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Missing the old Harker. I was building a harassment unit with 3 snipers and Harker's special rules and relentless bolter. Now that I can't infiltrate with him ... well they will still look for. GW giveth and taketh away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3678437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I had failed to notice that you get three special weapons PLUS a heavy...I thought it was capped at three, with no more than one being either a heavy weapon or a heavy flamer...interesting...autocannon plus three plasma guns? Hideous amount of S7 shooting (for a hideous price)! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290648-veteran-options/#findComment-3678823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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