GKs and 7th

[Gentlemanloser]

OK, first things that pop to mind.

 

1: Purifier armies without Crowe.  <3

 

But Unbound armies are going to be the worst thing ever to happen to 40k.

 

2: Psychic Phase

 

Massive nerf to us.

 

We get to use the same number of powers per turn as we always had.  But now, instead of havign an army wide 5+ Deny, we get to Deny 1d6 times per turn.

 

Or we can sacrifice activating a power, to get another Deny.

 

3: Daemonology.

 

I doubt we'll get access to the Dameon Summoning half.  But we should, for Radical Inquisitors.

 

If we do.

 

GK Libbies summoning Dameons.

 

Or even Inquisitors in GK lists summoning Daemons.

 

Or even Inquisitors taken with Codex: Inquisition, summoning Daemons.

 

Or Allied IG/AM/SM Psykers summoning Daemons.

 

/fluff

[BloodTzar]

...And the game has shifted from bad to teri-bad...

[DinoDoc]

 

3: Daemonology.

 

I doubt we'll get access to the Daemon Summoning half.  But we should, for Radical Inquisitors.

I appear to have missed a rumor. What are you talking bout here?

 

But Unbound armies are going to be the worst thing ever to happen to 40k.

Yeah. Already decided I've got no intention of playing Apocalypse. (Why does that expansion even still exist at this point?) Battle-forged armies only for me.

[Gentlemanloser]

Have a look at the two pics here;

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289346-7th-edition-rumor-thread-pg15-for-pics/page-15

 

The two types of Daemonolgy (Santic and Maelific) are mentioned at the bottom of the second.

 

Change the face of WAR! Able to summon Daemons fromt he Warp! :)

[Gentlemanloser]

(Just becuase I was most recently fixated upon massed Storm Bolters...)

 

Unbound 1850;

 

Coteaz (100)

Inquisitor, PML1 (55)

Inquisitor, PML1 (55)

Inquisitor, PML1 (55)

Inquisitor, PML1 (55)

Inquisitor, PML1 (55)

Inquisitor, PML1 (55)

Inquisitor, PML1 (55)

Inquisitor, PML1 (55)

Inquisitor, PML1 (55)

Inquisitor, PML1 (55)

Warrior x12, Plasma Gun x3, Storm Bolter x9 (105)

Warrior x12, Plasma Gun x3, Storm Bolter x9 (105)

Warrior x12, Plasma Gun x3, Storm Bolter x9 (105)

Warrior x12, Plasma Gun x3, Storm Bolter x9 (105)

Warrior x12, Plasma Gun x3, Storm Bolter x9 (105)

Warrior x12, Plasma Gun x3, Storm Bolter x9 (105)

Warrior x12, Plasma Gun x3, Storm Bolter x9 (105)

Warrior x12, Plasma Gun x3, Storm Bolter x9 (105)

Warrior x12, Plasma Gun x3, Storm Bolter x9 (105)

Warrior x12, Plasma Gun x3, Storm Bolter x9 (105)

Warrior x12, Plasma Gun x3, Storm Bolter x9 (105)

 

Total: 1,805

 

143 dudes, every Squad is Stubborn with Divination, 33 Plasma Guns and 99 Storm Bolters.

 

:)

[BloodTzar]

Spam-hammer has been rumored, therefore I do pick #7;

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/05/10-crazy-legal-40k-armylists-soon-enough.html

[IndigoJack]

I'm not too worried about unbound armies, they're just going to be a novelty that no one really plays in my area (or, hopefully, anywhere). What's really got me scratching my head is this psychic phase thing. It's either going to make GKs top tier again, or make us terribad. An army full of psykers can generate a lot of warp charge points, especially if they count psychic pilots. What I'm really curious about, is how this affects powers that are cast in the assault phase, like force weapons or cleansing flame. Do I have to cast those in the psychic phase then hope I'm in assault that turn to use them? I'm also curious about the fate of prescience. My army is far from useless without it, but I would miss it if it was gone.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'm not playing 7th. GW are insane

[Gentlemanloser]

But, but.

 

Nothing but Jokero...

 

Come on RD, embrace that narative!

 

/hug

[bonesaww666]

Honestly... It's going to be more then just these rules. Smarten up.

 

People are so out of whack, doomsday prepping spastic's

 

I think the Psychic Phase has the potential to make GK the "Dwarves" of 40k, with the ability to generate more Warp Charges per ML (I assume squads will all count as 1) then I assume we will be a solid force against anyone who relies on spamming psychic powers to win...

 

I'm not gettin too involved in much predictive list building as I believe the restrictions are yet to be unleashed. Considering that there will still be the current 6 missions and you will need core to score in them...

 

I don't think much will change, sure some armies can ignore Fast Attack and load up on Heavy Support but really, who cares?

 

If you want an army that primarily brings heavy guns and long range fire, then all the power to you.

 

Fast Attack Blitzkrieg style armies!? Sure why the hell not.

 

The core of the game will remain much the same, you just have a little more wiggle room.

 

I am ever so excited for the "Living Objectives", it's going to add a whole new level to the game. 12 missions, 3 alternate deployment methods... So much variance!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

But, but.

 

Nothing but Jokero...

 

Come on RD, embrace that narative!

 

/hug

I can do that already with Coteaz ;) and honestly I run out of points before I run out of Troop slots

 

Honestly... It's going to be more then just these rules. Smarten up.

I'm aware of that. But these changes alone (stupid WHFB magic phase shoehorn, the removal of Force Org with the dubious caveat that normal balanced forces get special bonuses) are enough to throw the game's tenuous grip on a level playing field completely out the window. Unless people do the smart thing and like Escalation ban it in friendly games/tourneys, Unbound is the new meta. 6 Riptides is now a legal list without even the fig leaf of min Troops and HQ. 

 

I think the Psychic Phase has the potential to make GK the "Dwarves" of 40k, with the ability to generate more Warp Charges per ML (I assume squads will all count as 1) then I assume we will be a solid force against anyone who relies on spamming psychic powers to win...

The thing you're missing though is that the current system is more powerful, as no one has to share diddly. Every squad gets their Warp Charges according to Mastery level, and Deny rolls are a flat 5+ across everything (with the -1 from Aegis forcing more fails on the initial enemy Psychic test, thus adding a further layer of protection). Burning Warp Charges to stop enemy powers is flat out dumb. I miss the old psychic hoods, Librarians are barely worth bothering with this edition, not just ours either...

 

I'm not gettin too involved in much predictive list building as I believe the restrictions are yet to be unleashed. Considering that there will still be the current 6 missions and you will need core to score in them...

People will choose not to play Eternal War missions. Additionally, their extra objective cards mean they can still eke out victory through non-scoring means (killing the Warlord, more VP's, holding your DZ etc etc) and basically ignore the mission requirements for victory. That's what the stupid objective cards do, they make Troops and scoring an irrelevancy. 

 

If you want an army that primarily brings heavy guns and long range fire, then all the power to you.

Which is precisely what the Force Org chart (in its original form) was designed to stop. When the double chart at 2k came in 6th edtion, it threw those restrictions largely out the window, but at least it still forced 2 HQ and 4 Troops to be present. Now, you can field an entire army of Nurgle Obliterators with zero drawbacks. 

 

Fast Attack Blitzkrieg style armies!? Sure why the hell not.

Fast Attack is, barring some exceptions, the weakest slot in the army by far, and that's even ignoring the non-scoring aspect. Riptide lists don't care how many Bikes, Landspeeders, Piranhas etc you bring, they'll turn them all to flaming wreckage. 6 Helturkey will be amusing though, I grant you. 

 

The core of the game will remain much the same, you just have a little more wiggle room. 

The core of the game is gone. GW have literally given up on the rules, they're basically turned the entire game into Apocalypse and shoe-horned in as much WHFB as possible. 

 

 

I am ever so excited for the "Living Objectives", it's going to add a whole new level to the game. 12 missions, 3 alternate deployment methods... So much variance! 

 

Well most games are going to be like Escalation now, a throwdown to see who can table the other fastest, and score their objective cards quicker. Unbound doesn't just let you field whatever you want from one codex, it's from ALL CODICIES. Which means unlike in 6th (where they at least forced you to play 2 main races+Inquisition), you can now field units from every faction in the same list if you want. Add in the lopsided Ally rules, and you can see how most Unbound games will turn out. 

[Gentlemanloser]

 

Unbound doesn't just let you field whatever you want from one codex,
it's from ALL CODICIES. Which means unlike in 6th (where they at least
forced you to play 2 main races+Inquisition), you can now field units
from every faction in the same list if you want. Add in the lopsided
Ally rules, and you can see how most Unbound games will turn out.

 

I didn't read it that way.  I read it as still a single 'race', with allies as per the new Ally Matrix.

[Quozzo]

I would like to see 30 units of paladins consisting of a single model each. You dont have any psycannons but that many psychic attacks would be hilarious. Plus any over-kill in wounds they take wont "bleed" onto another model. Not sure how psychic powers works in WHFB but can a libby use that warp charge pool themselves to spam prescience or another power?

 

Conversion beamer techmarines in purgator squads might be entertaining. As will 10 dreadknights or so.

 

I feel sorry for anyone who bought Crowe.

[Valerian]

I'm not too worried about unbound armies, they're just going to be a novelty that no one really plays in my area (or, hopefully, anywhere). What's really got me scratching my head is this psychic phase thing. It's either going to make GKs top tier again, or make us terribad. An army full of psykers can generate a lot of warp charge points, especially if they count psychic pilots. What I'm really curious about, is how this affects powers that are cast in the assault phase, like force weapons or cleansing flame. Do I have to cast those in the psychic phase then hope I'm in assault that turn to use them? I'm also curious about the fate of prescience. My army is far from useless without it, but I would miss it if it was gone.

 

Same here: I'm much less concerned about Unbound lists as I am the reinstitution of the Psychic Phase.  I actually like doing "shooty" powers during the Shooting phase, "choppy" powers during the Assault phase, and "mobility" powers during the Movement phase - just works well.  My biggest issue with 3e-6e Psychic use has been the danger of Perils-wounds (with no save at all in 6e), which can be a real risk, especially for some of units.  Anyway, we'll see soon enough how the actual implementation plays out.  As you pointed out, this might really elevate the power of the Grey Knights, considering that every single unit is a Psyker, to include the vehicles.

 

V

[Gentlemanloser]

No one's concenred about facing 7 Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter DreadKnights at 1850?

 

That's got to make even Riptides and Helldrakes pause.

[Dread]

If this becomes fantasy, are group is thinking about revisiting 5th ed. I already play fantasy and don't want the same rules but, who knows this may be good.

 

7 DK, would be awesome but I only own 3.

[BloodTzar]

Basically unbound is the real income for GW, it would be smart from them to make unbound tournies in order to secure the income. 

 

On the other hand, what really worries me, is the new magic phase, if this is going to be the same as in WHFB we might be facing some fancy spells that are mitigated there by the sheer number of models, while in 40k being more "elitist" I believe it will become the very devastating. 

[Gentlemanloser]

1850 points;

 

21 x Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo

1 x Razorback, Psybolt Ammo

 

Total: 1,835

 

Grey Knights Razors (over Inquisitorial ones, which would be 5 points cheaper each), hoping that Psychic Pilot generates a Warp Charge.

 

Shoot and Tank Shock your way to victory!

 

 

Edit: Could get exactly 37 TL HB Razors at 1850...

 

Edit2;

1850 points;

 

10 x Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo (850)

20 x Razorback, Psybolt Ammo (1000)

 

Total: 1,850

[bonesaww666]

I don't know where everyone seems to get the idea that you won't have to take HQ's...

 

Also, who's to say that 40k won't suffer from similar unit restrictions to Fantasy, maybe the bonus won't be that Bound lists get points etc, but the ability to take a full set of ForOrg of a unit type, where as Unbound will be restricted to 2 of each choice...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

I didn't read it that way.  I read it as still a single 'race', with allies as per the new Ally Matrix.

 

That would be logical. But this GW. Do you really trust them to do the smart thing and make it sane?

 

I feel sorry for anyone who bought Crowe. 

We all do, since our codex came out. The addition of the IC rule would fix him, but hey, when has GW ever done the smart thing?

 

Same here: I'm much less concerned about Unbound lists as I am the reinstitution of the Psychic Phase.  I actually like doing "shooty" powers during the Shooting phase, "choppy" powers during the Assault phase, and "mobility" powers during the Movement phase - just works well.  My biggest issue with 3e-6e Psychic use has been the danger of Perils-wounds (with no save at all in 6e), which can be a real risk, especially for some of units.  Anyway, we'll see soon enough how the actual implementation plays out.  As you pointed out, this might really elevate the power of the Grey Knights, considering that every single unit is a Psyker, to include the vehicles.

Well, as someone who plays Fantasy, I can tell you that magic works really randomly. As in, some turns you roll big and stomp, and other turns you roll nothing and weep as your expensive mages do jack all. It's yet more randumb tables to roll on to randomly achieve a result that may or may not work in your favour. Ie the opposite of fun. 

 

No one's concenred about facing 7 Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter DreadKnights at 1850?

 

That's got to make even Riptides and Helldrakes pause.

No, because the 7 Daemon Prince list eats them for breakfast

 

I don't know where everyone seems to get the idea that you won't have to take HQ's...

Because the Unbound rules state that you don't need to use the Force Org chat. Therefore, why would you bother?

 

Also, who's to say that 40k won't suffer from similar unit restrictions to Fantasy, maybe the bonus won't be that Bound lists get points etc, but the ability to take a full set of ForOrg of a unit type, where as Unbound will be restricted to 2 of each choice... 

Because in the article, they state point blank that its open season. Take whatever models you want and put them on the table. Its Apoc shoehorned into 40k. 

[Gentlemanloser]

No, because the 7 Daemon Prince list eats them for breakfast

lol.

Never. Not with PE and Dark Excommunication. And Force Weapons.

I don't know where everyone seems to get the idea that you won't have to take HQ's...

Not bound by the FoC. Full Riptide Armies are go!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

lol.

Never. Not with PE and Dark Excommunication. And Force Weapons.

Daemon Prices are I7, Dreadknights are I4. You get slaughtered before you can swing

[Gentlemanloser]

Not when you Dark Exo thier Gift Weapon.  Sure they can Smash for AP2, but then they don't have enough attacks to kill you before you can Force Weapon them.

[jeffersonian000]

Not when you Dark Exo thier Gift Weapon. Sure they can Smash for AP2, but then they don't have enough attacks to kill you before you can Force Weapon them.

Can't "Force Weapon them" if you use Dark Ex, DKs are only ML1.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Not when you Dark Exo thier Gift Weapon.  Sure they can Smash for AP2, but then they don't have enough attacks to kill you before you can Force Weapon them.

 

They don't need to. As per the rules for MC's, all their attacks have AP2. They only need to Smash to max out to S10 against vehicles and such. Believe me, I've fought Princes before with DK's, its a one-sided fight unless they fluff their attacks and you get lucky. More often than not the DK is on 2 wounds anyway due to Oblits or whatever else shot it prior to getting charged. It's really annoying, given the DK's entire job description is 'a Terminator can't fight a DP but you can in this exo-armour'. 

 

Can't "Force Weapon them" if you use Dark Ex, DKs are only ML1.

Aren't Princes Eternal Warriors anyway? Forgot if they still had that or not.