GKs and 7th

[librisrouge]

 

 

So, all and all, I'd rather have my GKs summon a deamon to win than defer to an Imperial Saint, because to me GKs are the paragons of ruthlessness - they are the WAAC players of the 40k universe. They'll just kill the deamon afterward like one disposes of an illegal gun in a public dumpster.

I seriously doubt that the 'Sanctic' side of Deamonology will have anything to do with summoning Saints/good-guys. Probably more along the lines of defeating daemons, which is what we do in the Grey Knights already. I have no proof or inside knowledge, of course; I just don't see the designers doing this. As a dual-sided psychic discipline, I imagine one-side is focused on leveraging daemonic war power, while the other side focuses on defeating it. If anything, I would guess that the 5e Grey Knight powers (Dark Excommunication, for example) are the precursors of the Sanctic table.

 

Valerian

This this this.

 

Saints aren't warp entities. They aren't summoned. However, almost all 'good' psykers are trained in methods to deal with chaos. It's a big part of the reason the librarians and sanctioned psykers exist since they can fight daemons on even footing. This new discipline represents that.

[Quozzo]

Grey Knights may not like sacrificing IG/SoB or who ever may be nearby to aid preventing daemons getting a foothold, but they're not getting paid to like it. In novels we see them wrestling with their conscious but they always follow orders even if it results in their death. Any trace of personality has been erased from their mind. They are the Emperors finest. The first defence and last hope against daemons. If they fail there is nothing else capable of defeating the horrors of the warp.

 

While I dont believe grey knights would willingly summon daemons to help defeat the Tau or some such. That doesn't mean someone else won't have the same ideology as I do. Some even use grey knights as counts as for other armies, like custodes, who may or may not resort to daemonology, willingly or not. The current fluff has no grey knight fallen to chaos but that may just change ib someone's homebrew fluff.

[boreas]

I think I just have a difference of vision :) To me, "pragmatic" (Dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations) is not strong enough a word. Ruthless (Having or showing no pity or compassion for others) is more like it. A pragmatic would have taken the sisters away to fight for another day and found a more sensible way to win. But then again, that's a more personnal interpretation of "pragmatism". We're in deep philosophy here :)

 

My "new" vison of GKs is reflected in my new paint scheme. My GKs aren't shiny/silver. They're grey :) I still don't like that they'd summon daemon and probably wouldn't use it. But if I did, I justify it not by the bringing about of new daemons, but by the driving on of existing one... 

 

Now, if the "light" powers are more daemonicide in nature, that would be doubly bad for us. First, we wouldn't win anything new (compared to other armies gaining the ability to spawn units). And it would take away from our unique nature...

[Gentlemanloser]

Hands up if you think Sanctic Daemonology will contain;

 

Sanctuary

Warp Quake

Dark Excommunication

 

/raises hand

[boreas]

Well the upside is that I'll be even more interested in my Tau army :(

[Valerian]

Hands up if you think Sanctic Daemonology will contain;

 

Sanctuary

Warp Quake

Dark Excommunication

 

/raises hand

That's exactly what I was getting at above. And, like all of the other psychic disciplines, it won't be available to all armies, or probably very many armies at all. Just as I'd expect that the Evil discipline won't be either.

[Gentlemanloser]

If it's available to even one more than us, that's a significant devaluing of our Army.

 

We've lost the Inquisition, and if we lose our unique Psychic Powers too...

 

Imagine if other Imperial Armies could pick up Warp Quake.

[boreas]

We'll be in the next SM codex :)

[Gentlemanloser]

And we're back to Chapter Tactics: Grey Knights! ;)

[Dread]

Now if killing units gets us VP ten by all means lets summon daemons into our back row and blast 'em off the table. But we have to wait and see what's up with the new.

[Gentlemanloser]

I doubt we'd be able to target units we summon.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

While I dont believe grey knights would willingly summon daemons to help defeat the Tau or some such. That doesn't mean someone else won't have the same ideology as I do. Some even use grey knights as counts as for other armies, like Thousand Sons, who may or may not resort to daemonology, willingly or not. The current fluff has no grey knight fallen to chaos but that may just change ib someone's homebrew fluff.

fixed. Custodes are another force that would never under any circumstances willingly allow daemons entry into reality. In fact, the Custodes fought in a secret battle at the Emperor's webway portal to prevent daemons infiltrating the Imperial palace.

I think I just have a difference of vision To me, "pragmatic" (Dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations) is not strong enough a word. Ruthless (Having or showing no pity or compassion for others) is more like it. A pragmatic would have taken the sisters away to fight for another day and found a more sensible way to win. But then again, that's a more personnal interpretation of "pragmatism". We're in deep philosophy here

The facts of the situation were that no other force could repel the Bloodtide, as its a sentient nano-machine collective that replicates from blood, which was then further corrupted by a Bloodthirster being released. So, it wasn't just a malefic force, it was also a 'realspace' holocaust. So, Knights could purge the daemon at the heart of it, but their power armour and psychic might wouldn't let them survive the nano-machines anymore than the mortal Imperial forces. Hence, they need blood to A: sate the nano-machines thirst for it and B: pure so it wouldn't be a vector for the daemon. As it was, they still suffered losses getting to and purging the Bloodthirster, but instead of being annihilated they just lost some.

So no, they couldn't just take the Sisters away. To fight the warp you have to play by the same rules. Which is why their powers and knowledge are entrusted to no other force, because if regular psykers attempted what they do, they'd die or be corrupted. Knights have the gene-seed to help them, but they still struggle all the same.

I guess I'll settle for 'pragmatic ruthlessness' haha. Knights don't want to destroy the Imperium, but they can and will sacrifice anything for victory, including their own lives. Billions to save trillions etc. They battle an enemy that will never be destroyed, never tires, never gives up, and the Knights are at least partially aware the Imperium is doomed anyway.

Hands up if you think Sanctic Daemonology will contain;

Sanctuary

Warp Quake

Dark Excommunication

/raises hand

I'd prefer it to be renamed. Even 'Sanctic Sorcery' is better.

Imagine if other Imperial Armies could pick up Warp Quake.

Strikes are completely out of a job if that happens, as will be Interceptors :(

And we're back to Chapter Tactics: Grey Knights!

Pls no

I doubt we'd be able to target units we summon.

Remember, its your 'power at any cost' Inquisitor doing the summoning, not Knights ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

What I mean if if my army summons a Daemon Prince (by means of an Inquisitor) I doulbt that my GK could target that DP.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

What I mean if if my army summons a Daemon Prince (by means of an Inquisitor) I doulbt that my GK could target that DP.

 

Yeah I know by rules, but outside a comp environment, I think your opponents should allow it. Because maximum heresy if not. 

[Valerian]

Out of the armies that I play, I'm most excited and hopeful about the possibilities for a positive impact of the new edition on our Grey Knights.  Depending on the details, this might bring them back to power.  Less than two weeks now, and we'll know for sure.

[thade]

I think "Consolidate into combat" is going to go a long way for our melee-friendly/model-light army.

[Gentlemanloser]

Guys, check out post #1122.

 

And weep.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289346-7th-edition-rumor-thread-pg15-for-pics/page-45

[DinoDoc]

So how will this help us?:

http://i.imgur.com/Fn7LDcS.png

[Gentlemanloser]

If we could get DT LRs like Codex: Inquisition it might be good.

 

They get Scoring Valkeries. lol.

 

(As long as thier 'scoring' Elites count as Troops...)

 

But for us.  Razors get Glanced too easily.

[Quozzo]

Im not worried about the malefic powers. The primaris power costs 3 warp charges. One requires an unsavable wound (although they could use fnp) another costs the life of a model (which specifically says all models within the unit with BoP dies too, so we can we use them?) and the other is only summoning one model. Psyker powers are going to be riskier than before and they are risking perils for daemons which are our preferred enemy after all. I think we will be the last army to worry about daemons showing up.

 

It looks like daemons arent selling very well this edition so they're letting any army purchase them, I mean play them, next edition.

 

And did blood angels just get scoring land raiders :D

[Valerian]

 

 

It looks like daemons arent selling very well this edition so they're letting any army purchase them, I mean play them, next edition.

 

 

 

Nothing in the leaked table indicates that any army can use it; it is very likely that access to that Psychic Discipline will be limited.

[librisrouge]

I bet it will be ridiculously available, since fluff allows most psykers to do that stuff. Plus, pooled power dice mean that you won't need lvl3 to pull it off, just a LOT of dice and an enemy lacking in dedication to stopping you.

[Gentlemanloser]

Exactly.

 

Have three PML1 Psykers in your army?  Roll a 6, and you can now summon either Three Heralds (with 50 points of wargear) or 30 Daemons.

 

Every Round.

 

Heck if you summon Psyker Daemons, that just *increases* your Warp Charge Pool for summoning more Daemons in later rounds.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Exactly.

 

Have three PML1 Psykers in your army?  Roll a 6, and you can now summon either Three Heralds (with 50 points of wargear) or 30 Daemons.

 

Every Round.

 

Heck if you summon Psyker Daemons, that just *increases* your Warp Charge Pool for summoning more Daemons in later rounds.

I just realised something....

 

If this is gonna be "lol I just summoned a billion daemons" edition, we're gonna be the best Allies any faction could ask for;

 

- Aegis to screw with offensive psychic powers? Check

- Psyk-out grenades to ensure we win every charge against a psyker/daemon unit? Check

- Force weapons to insta-gib the daemonic monsters getting summoned? Check

- Preferred Enemy: Daemons? Check

- Massed bolters and incinerator to ruin daemon infantry, backed up by massed psycannon to deal with big monsters? Check

- S10 hammers to murder Soulgrinders? Check

 

Hell yeah. Move over Tau, we're the new favourite Ally choice. 

[boreas]

Exactly.

 

Have three PML1 Psykers in your army?  Roll a 6, and you can now summon either Three Heralds (with 50 points of wargear) or 30 Daemons.

 

Every Round.

 

Heck if you summon Psyker Daemons, that just *increases* your Warp Charge Pool for summoning more Daemons in later rounds.

 

Well, that's hard to know right now. Even with pooled dice, there could be a limit to warp charg expanditure. It could be that Psykers can only cast within their power lever plus one.