Chaplain Lucifer Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 WE've made it here so far with a Codex track record that doesn't envy anyone... IMHO worse that can happen is taht we have to change the way we build and play our armies. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhg033 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 i'm starting to look forward to 7th - it's catching my imagination a lot more than previous versions did. I keep thinking of March10k's list and that it will probably not much to be changed at all, it will just be better than it is now - battleforged, everything scoring/contesting, ultra hard landraiders getting even harder, libby for powers goodness which may be even better. granted rumours have to be taken with some salt but at this rate, given the chance, I may start playing again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I am thinking of ditching the Shroud in my Ravenwing. As 6th matured, more and more weapons simply denied cover, or prevented it. And I think the IG Deathstrike is indication of which direction they're moving in. (I realize I've mentioned the deathstrike already in this thread! lol) But one thing that may be an ace up our sleeve, regardless of Green/Raven/Deathwing is the Libby on a bike with a PFG.In my Ravenwing it will allow me to drop the Shroud, and and if the rumour is true that a "Jink" save stops you from being able to shoot the next turn (like a flyer) then really a PFG Libby (in a landraider? or a bike, etc) can keep our tougher troops alive longer. Actually this might be our specialty forcing unbound force orgs to really dig in to try to gut us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I am thinking of ditching the Shroud in my Ravenwing. As 6th matured, more and more weapons simply denied cover, or prevented it. And I think the IG Deathstrike is indication of which direction they're moving in. (I realize I've mentioned the deathstrike already in this thread! lol) But one thing that may be an ace up our sleeve, regardless of Green/Raven/Deathwing is the Libby on a bike with a PFG.In my Ravenwing it will allow me to drop the Shroud, and and if the rumour is true that a "Jink" save stops you from being able to shoot the next turn (like a flyer) then really a PFG Libby (in a landraider? or a bike, etc) can keep our tougher troops alive longer. Actually this might be our specialty forcing unbound force orgs to really dig in to try to gut us. Considering that techmarines can have a bike and a PFG Too you cha have a Battle Forged army with 2 lib + 2 tech + 2 RWCS + 1 RWAS (splitted in 2) + 1/2 RWSS + 2 tactical squads...And you still get the Battle Forged Bonuses... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I am thinking of ditching the Shroud in my Ravenwing. As 6th matured, more and more weapons simply denied cover, or prevented it. And I think the IG Deathstrike is indication of which direction they're moving in. (I realize I've mentioned the deathstrike already in this thread! lol) But one thing that may be an ace up our sleeve, regardless of Green/Raven/Deathwing is the Libby on a bike with a PFG.In my Ravenwing it will allow me to drop the Shroud, and and if the rumour is true that a "Jink" save stops you from being able to shoot the next turn (like a flyer) then really a PFG Libby (in a landraider? or a bike, etc) can keep our tougher troops alive longer. Actually this might be our specialty forcing unbound force orgs to really dig in to try to gut us. Considering that techmarines can have a bike and a PFG Too you cha have a Battle Forged army with 2 lib + 2 tech + 2 RWCS + 1 RWAS (splitted in 2) + 1/2 RWSS + 2 tactical squads...And you still get the Battle Forged Bonuses... Yea, exactly. And the Mawlocs/Deathstrikes/new 'D Weapons' might find that PFG action to be pretty annoying. I don't know if I'd use 4 of them though. lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I am thinking of ditching the Shroud in my Ravenwing. As 6th matured, more and more weapons simply denied cover, or prevented it. And I think the IG Deathstrike is indication of which direction they're moving in. (I realize I've mentioned the deathstrike already in this thread! lol) But one thing that may be an ace up our sleeve, regardless of Green/Raven/Deathwing is the Libby on a bike with a PFG.In my Ravenwing it will allow me to drop the Shroud, and and if the rumour is true that a "Jink" save stops you from being able to shoot the next turn (like a flyer) then really a PFG Libby (in a landraider? or a bike, etc) can keep our tougher troops alive longer. Actually this might be our specialty forcing unbound force orgs to really dig in to try to gut us. Wonder if the FAQ nerf for the PFG will allow it to extend 3" from hull or if they will extend protection only to the squad inside as the current FAQ has it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 I was debating dropping the Darkshroud as well but... I have a feeling that Ignores Cover is getting reworked. I'm not basing this on any rumors I've heard of course, just pure speculation on my part. Being the forum that we are, we're all of power armored clad warriors and our discussions are centered around that. But what you may not know about me is that I am an esteemed (and highly depraved) Archon of Commorragh! [cue dramatic organ music]. You don't know how frustrating Ignores Cover is until your army all has 5+ and 6+ save and your vehicles are all 10-10-10 and open topped, you LIVE for cover, and to have it nullified so easily is truly one of the most demoralizing aspects of the game (hence one of the reasons I spend more time here and not with my DE Kabals). It significantly changes the entire strategic aspect of the game (if cover means nothing, then why bother having terrain, why bother THINKING about where you're going to place units) I know we like to jest at GW's rule makers, but they HAVE to see how poorly implemented that rule is (or at least how ubiquitous it is in and around the game) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I was thinking... New jink Save Will Force you to snapshot... But if skilled rider Will Grant you full BS shooting even if jinking??? This would make BK really powerful and Worth the 40 points per model... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhg033 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I was thinking... New jink Save Will Force you to snapshot... But if skilled rider Will Grant you full BS shooting even if jinking??? This would make BK really powerful and Worth the 40 points per model... that would be nasty Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Being the forum that we are, we're all of power armored clad warriors and our discussions are centered around that. But what you may not know about me is that I am an esteemed (and highly depraved) Archon of Commorragh! [cue dramatic organ music]. You don't know how frustrating Ignores Cover is until your army all has 5+ and 6+ save and your vehicles are all 10-10-10 and open topped, you LIVE for cover, and to have it nullified so easily is truly one of the most demoralizing aspects of the game (hence one of the reasons I spend more time here and not with my DE Kabals). I have 3k of DE entombed in their foam coffins...when 6th denied assault from reserves (aka double WWP) there was NO WAY my frontal assault witches could slog across the table...with their 6+ save...sigh... However, the best cover is one that can't be denied: BLOS! As for the changes 7th will bring...I've worn tired of rumors: just want the new ruleset to come out, fingers crossed that it doesn't happen in 3 books, 4 WD and FAQ along with digital expansions... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Oh man the amount of ignores cover trash just does my head in and my guys wear power armor, I really dunno what GW were thinking of with ignores cover it appears to have been given out like confetti (except to us) 1st off I dunno who thinks DA are not competitive but the last few comps I've been I've really upset the apple carts. We may not be a top table army but were a real rock paper scissors outfit with some builds being very nasty to certain current trends. I can't see how a Jinx save is going to be implemented as snap shots on bikes or speeders it doesn't really make any sense the idea of it was you got a cover for fast movement. I can see it being implemented for Grav Tanks, non fast Vehicles though Psychic phase is gonna try level the playing field a bit against the super buff/unplayable stuff you know what I mean the Screamer 2+ re-rollable 1 invulnerable, the Eldar wave of psyker buff spam etc. Unbound I think will sit alongside the mission cards as your not going to be able to have the same missions for say an army of Riptides and lets be frank who would want to play against an army of riptides unless you have different goals Allies are going to get a good rogering as far as I can make out and about time I think we've all been disgusted at our other lesser bretheren taking up with all manner of Xenos just to flirt their latest spam list You know its bad enough already the state of play at the club currently means that even a medium hardcore list will table a fluffy club list within 2 turns in return they may kill a couple of models. This is not good for 40k in general it is getting to the stage were players will just go play something else. People don't mind loosing that much if there's some interaction and they have a chance of winning and the balance needs to be brought back with a hard thump. D weapons where is the interaction and I don't like apocalypse for this very reason Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I was thinking... New jink Save Will Force you to snapshot... But if skilled rider Will Grant you full BS shooting even if jinking??? This would make BK really powerful and Worth the 40 points per model... And would make Sammael in speeder even less useful... <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I was thinking... New jink Save Will Force you to snapshot... But if skilled rider Will Grant you full BS shooting even if jinking??? This would make BK really powerful and Worth the 40 points per model... And would make Sammael in speeder even less useful... <_<Sammael on LS was useful only during 3rd Edition... :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Off topic and a veiwpoint I disagree with anyway... If you have to resort to Jink on a 14/14/10 4++(powerfield) speeder then you have really done something wrong or the dice gods curse you anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 If you have to resort to Jink on a 14/14/10 4++(powerfield) speeder then you have really done something wrong or the dice gods curse you anyway. I'm not talking about the jink on a speeder. I'm talking about MSheol suggestion about skilled rider/jink/shooting at full BS. Since Sammael on bike grants the squad he joins with skilled rider it would make him still A LOT more useful than the speeder version... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 So you are saying put him with a RWAS and he will grant.. Okay, I can see that side now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3685995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I saw that now Battle brothers can ride in allied transports... Hooray For DWK inside a SR from Stormwing formation!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3686557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 ...or assault squads in vendetta formations... :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3686665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It seems that now snapshot is -2BS instead of flat BS1... Better For jinking RW... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3686719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 So the new missions were hinted at but nothing really conclusive. It looks like there's a lot, but right now to me Capture & Control, Take & Hold, Storm & Defend sound like they are saying the same thing just 3 different ways... http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YXpUMGjEGgQ/U3LclZu61CI/AAAAAAAAei8/9r8EJ1B6SGk/s1600/Screen+Shot+2014-05-13+at+9.56.15+PM.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3686982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm sure the 3 ways will have different rules. In any case, to keep this DA related, It's good that we have Fearless, fast and/or stubborn scoring units to capture all those objectives. If the name of the game is picking up objectives and not straight out killing then the DA codex stands a chance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3687034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm sure the 3 ways will have different rules. In any case, to keep this DA related, It's good that we have Fearless, fast and/or stubborn scoring units to capture all those objectives. If the name of the game is picking up objectives and not straight out killing then the DA codex stands a chance. Ah yeah, keep forgetting to keep it in the DA context. I agree, if you can troops can claim an objective even while someone is contesting them, this makes our tactical marines or scouts for that matter one of the best scoring units. Stubborn is actually going to come in handy for once. I don't know if I would park Deathwing on a backfield objective, but now they have a little more purpose other than just rushing an enemy and getting into CQC. What I do also see is Ravenwing bike options being opened up, rather than being used as a front line harasser they can zip from objective to objective for points. Picture a RW unit outflanking their 12" from a board edge and turbo-boosting onto an objective (assuming that points/objective claiming now will happen at the end of the player turn rather than movement phase) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3687078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It appears to me the rule that will save our special characters that unlock Termies/Bikes as troops is this _cumulative_ objective scoring, every turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3687092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Added to that, since every unit is rumored to score in a battle forged army, I expect to see more DW command squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3687102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Added to that, since every unit is rumored to score in a battle forged army, I expect to see more DW command squads. oooh if that's true... that's sweet. BUT I wonder if only battle forged 'troops' can contest? But yea, finally a good reason to have a super beefy HQ for Deathwing!!! I'd be all over this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290705-why-i-may-or-may-not-be-concerned-about-7th-ed/page/5/#findComment-3687365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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