Daemonology

[totgeboren]

Wouldn't it be funny if this "available to everyone" was the same sort of 'Everyone' as applied to the Knight?

Everyone gets access to Daemonology, except Chaos, because Chaos. And we already have the daemon codex to use. :D

 

Sorry, just being bitter, and the WD said something about it being better for daemon-kin, which I assume are the forces of chaos. I just hope it's not required that you have a Mark, since then you have to take a sucky God-specific power, and I could then not field my fluffy unmarked Word Bearer Daemonologist.

 

I mean, doesn't this guy just scream daemonology?

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/totgeboren40/Daemons/darkapostle007-1-1.jpg

[Iron_Within]

We could only hope that the 7th edition erratas the Codex a bit.

[Lepaca]

Well in the article there is word of a Bloodthirster but I think an Imperial player would simply put down St.Celestine and be done with it. In such a way it will be fluffy and not even remotely lore breaking. Also at long last GW is acknowledging the font of magic, its manifestation depends on the invoker yet all it is invariably daemonic, or warp magic. 

 

I sure hope that that won't be the case! An imperial psyker sacrificing his very soul to conjure a daemon as a last line of defense is awesome. Him calling upon angelic beings would 1) be a total contradiction to the lore (have there ever been any truly benevolent entities in the warp?) and 2) would go against the grim-dark atmosphere. 

 

Also, not every psyker may use daemonology. Tyranids don't have access to it!

 

All the info one could really get from the WD picture is that only Malefic daemonology allows you to summon stuff. As the Blood Thirster was summoned by a Dark Angels psyker Imperials seem therefore to be able to choose powers from Malefic daemonology.

 

However, we should propably just wait and see. No real use in speculating at this point.

[Urauloth]

We could only hope that the 7th edition erratas the Codex a bit.

 

I dunno, we could wish for it to literally emit unicorns from the pages when opened.

[daveNYC]

 

Well in the article there is word of a Bloodthirster but I think an Imperial player would simply put down St.Celestine and be done with it. In such a way it will be fluffy and not even remotely lore breaking. Also at long last GW is acknowledging the font of magic, its manifestation depends on the invoker yet all it is invariably daemonic, or warp magic. 

 

I sure hope that that won't be the case! An imperial psyker sacrificing his very soul to conjure a daemon as a last line of defense is awesome. Him calling upon angelic beings would 1) be a total contradiction to the lore (have there ever been any truly benevolent entities in the warp?) and 2) would go against the grim-dark atmosphere. 

 

There is the Legion of the Damned, but they're pretty grim-dark, and neither benevolent nor angelic are good descriptions for them.

[Lepaca]

 

 

 

Well in the article there is word of a Bloodthirster but I think an Imperial player would simply put down St.Celestine and be done with it. In such a way it will be fluffy and not even remotely lore breaking. Also at long last GW is acknowledging the font of magic, its manifestation depends on the invoker yet all it is invariably daemonic, or warp magic. 

 

 

I sure hope that that won't be the case! An imperial psyker sacrificing his very soul to conjure a daemon as a last line of defense is awesome. Him calling upon angelic beings would 1) be a total contradiction to the lore (have there ever been any truly benevolent entities in the warp?) and 2) would go against the grim-dark atmosphere. 

 

There is the Legion of the Damned, but they're pretty grim-dark, and neither benevolent nor angelic are good descriptions for them.

Ok, I have to admit that I never really got around to reading much about the LotD. What are they exactly? And are they a Ward thing?

[Plague Angel]

Even the Legion are mysterious, and if they're "Emperor daemons" they're directed by him alone. Just like other preternatural occurrences like saints or the Sanguinor.

 

There has never been a suggestion in lore that "entities of the Emperor" could be summoned.

[Chaeron]

It would be glorious to summon them constantly with low-wound sorcerers..

[Valaskjalf]

I just really hope that there is a serious risk involved for Imperial Psykers trying to cast Malefic powers, or especially Summoning Daemons. It should be severely risky, otherwise if it's just too easy to do it we will completely lose the flavor of what Chaos is imo, and every other guy will be fielding an abomination of Daemon-summoning Inquisitors.

 

Also wonder what the situation will be if, ie some Imperial Psyker summons a GD, but he's playing against Daemons - It doesnt make any sense to me that this Daemon would side with the non-chaos side, espcially if the one they summon is of the same Alignment as the Chaos player? Am I reading too much into this? Actually I think Daemon summoning should be strictly prohibited by non-chaos players if they play against chaos.......at the very least it much be severely difficult.

[incinerator950]

At the very least, uncontrollable like spawn used to be.

I know for a fact I don't want to buy a GD model unless I have to... which is strange given that I wanted one last edition.  0_o

[Iron_Within]

I just really hope that there is a serious risk involved for Imperial Psykers trying to cast Malefic powers, or especially Summoning Daemons. It should be severely risky, otherwise if it's just too easy to do it we will completely lose the flavor of what Chaos is imo, and every other guy will be fielding an abomination of Daemon-summoning Inquisitors.

 

Also wonder what the situation will be if, ie some Imperial Psyker summons a GD, but he's playing against Daemons - It doesnt make any sense to me that this Daemon would side with the non-chaos side, espcially if the one they summon is of the same Alignment as the Chaos player? Am I reading too much into this? Actually I think Daemon summoning should be strictly prohibited by non-chaos players if they play against chaos.......at the very least it much be severely difficult.

 

There are actually a hell of a lot of reasons why a Daemon would show up on the other side. But in two words: The Great Game.

 

Daemons don't like each other, even those from their own gods, they nothing but pure evil, with all of eternity to dwell on a slight of wrong done to them. There are those daemons who despise each other because their gods are opposites, or not the same. It's perfectly reasonable for a Bloodthirster to turn up to have it out with another Bloodthirster who slighted it, or is higher up the pecking order and wants to take it's place, or hell, someone just opened their head to possession, and WHEEE!!!! KNIFING TIME!!! and so they don't really care who they kill.

 

This same thing above applies to all flavours of daemons. Daemons don't get on.

 

However, yeah.... Bloodthirsters fighting for loyalists... not good, if there is a caveat like said above, like a Ld test control order or the Daemon will just attack whoever is closest (hopefully with some mitigation for Chaos... HA! fat chance)  then we'll see plenty of "Daemon bombs" in the next edition.

[Clone]

I'm trying not to get too worked up over this but if loyalist forces will now get access to Daemons... After the imperial knight debacle and chapter tactics... I think I'll step away from chaos for a while.

[Iron_Within]

I do think each new release has seen more and more hemorrhage from the Chaos faction. It's a shame really.

[daveNYC]

Even the Legion are mysterious, and if they're "Emperor daemons" they're directed by him alone. Just like other preternatural occurrences like saints or the Sanguinor.

 

There has never been a suggestion in lore that "entities of the Emperor" could be summoned.

 

They're not in the same camp as daemons.  A daemon is something a CSM type is actually trying to bring into the real world.  Legion of the Damned are more in the category of 'things the guys getting shot at pray show up to save their bacon'.  They're a force from 'beyond' that show up at the last minute to save the day.  For the Imperial forces in 40k, they're about as close to angels as things get.

[HsojVvad]

The WD page says everyone. But there has to be some caveat to that.

 

Wasn't this said for Imperial Knights as well? We all know how that turned out eh?

[RolandTHTG]

 

The WD page says everyone. But there has to be some caveat to that.

 

Wasn't this said for Imperial Knights as well? We all know how that turned out eh?

So now they're trolling Imperial players? At least they spread the lols

[Castellan Cato]

 

 

 

 

The WD page says everyone. But there has to be some caveat to that.

Wasn't this said for Imperial Knights as well? We all know how that turned out eh?

So now they're trolling Imperial players? At least they spread the lols

Well they've said there's two sub lores for Daemonology. I'm expecting X people can have good and Y people can have bad. That means everyone has something from that tree.

 

Hopefully my guard can take maelific in the end. 6 25pt chances to be able to summon a bloodthrister. Yes please!!!

[Plague Angel]

 

Even the Legion are mysterious, and if they're "Emperor daemons" they're directed by him alone. Just like other preternatural occurrences like saints or the Sanguinor.

 

There has never been a suggestion in lore that "entities of the Emperor" could be summoned.

 

They're not in the same camp as daemons.  A daemon is something a CSM type is actually trying to bring into the real world.  Legion of the Damned are more in the category of 'things the guys getting shot at pray show up to save their bacon'.  They're a force from 'beyond' that show up at the last minute to save the day.  For the Imperial forces in 40k, they're about as close to angels as things get.

 

Sure.

 

Point is, none of the mysterious otherwordly Imperial things in the fluff are the sorts of things that can be summoned with warp-magic.

 

If someone wants to model a counts-as Greater Daemon as some sort of Imperial Saint, that's their right, and if it's a cool model I'd be excited to see it. But I disagree that it's more in-line with the fluff. There's no precedent for Librarians calling upon such things. But there's loads of precedent for a Librarian or other psyker succumbing to the temptations of the warp.

[Lagrath]

The WD hinted that Chaos (or at least Chaos Daemons) would face less risk from using that table. A friend of mine also pointed out to me that Fantasy uses a die system, rather than LD value, to see if a power goes off. This would be great news for Chaos Daemons, as heralds are LD 8 and the big boys are LD 9. If LD is out the door, Daemon psykers just became much more powerful. Adding psyker levels to heralds will also be a way to add a lot of dispel dice to your pool (assuming that is how the new psychic phase will work).

[DoomulusPrime]

WHEEE!!!! KNIFING TIME!!!

Favorite quote from BnC thus far.

[the jeske]

The WD hinted that Chaos (or at least Chaos Daemons) would face less risk from using that table. A friend of mine also pointed out to me that Fantasy uses a die system, rather than LD value, to see if a power goes off. This would be great news for Chaos Daemons, as heralds are LD 8 and the big boys are LD 9. If LD is out the door, Daemon psykers just became much more powerful. Adding psyker levels to heralds will also be a way to add a lot of dispel dice to your pool (assuming that is how the new psychic phase will work).

All casters demons actualy use are Ld 10 [or rather +3 , which counters some Ld negatives out there] , because of being tzeench.

[Lepaca]

If someone wants to model a counts-as Greater Daemon as some sort of Imperial Saint, that's their right, and if it's a cool model I'd be excited to see it. But I disagree that it's more in-line with the fluff. There's no precedent for Librarians calling upon such things. But there's loads of precedent for a Librarian or other psyker succumbing to the temptations of the warp.

 

How funny would it be if that summoned St. Celestine  Bloodthirster stand in just turned around and started charging into the imperial troops (always considering that the summoned daemons will have a chance of turning on their summoners).

[Spacefrisian]

 

We could only hope that the 7th edition erratas the Codex a bit.

 

I dunno, we could wish for it to literally emit unicorns from the pages when opened.

Running over a Rainbow to wards a fairytal castle where we a welcomed by a singing peeps all looking like Matt Ward chanting holy prayers to J. the Emperor Johnson.

[Plague Angel]

 

The WD hinted that Chaos (or at least Chaos Daemons) would face less risk from using that table. A friend of mine also pointed out to me that Fantasy uses a die system, rather than LD value, to see if a power goes off. This would be great news for Chaos Daemons, as heralds are LD 8 and the big boys are LD 9. If LD is out the door, Daemon psykers just became much more powerful. Adding psyker levels to heralds will also be a way to add a lot of dispel dice to your pool (assuming that is how the new psychic phase will work).

All casters demons actualy use are Ld 10 [or rather +3 , which counters some Ld negatives out there] , because of being tzeench.

 

Right.

 

Absolutely no one actually plays mono-Slaanesh or mono-Nurgle armies. Those options, being inferior, don't exist.

[Sception]

The WD hinted that Chaos (or at least Chaos Daemons) would face less risk from using that table.

 

 

The way I read it, it was just daemons that the article hinted would face less risk.  'daemonic kin' or whatever.  I didn't pick up on any indication at all that mortal chaos psychers would gain any bonus what-so-ever when it comes to summoning daemons.  Heck, marked psychers, including Tzeentch psychers, will probably be worse at it than same-leveled non-chaos counterparts, due to having to pick one of their powers from the aligned tables.