HsojVvad Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Could it just be that the Ezekiel example in that article was just a playtest game and by the time the rules hit it wouldn't actually be possible. But the WD writers decided it was too cool a story not to tell. >Could be, but it seems unlikely they'd tell a cool story to drum up interest in the new lore and then make that specific cool thing that happened impossible in actual play. If they found it that enjoyable that they had to share it and thought it would make players more inclined to forgive a new core edition after only two years, then that's probably something they would opt to keep. How about this: when was the last time you read a battle report in the WD where they actually followed all the rules? They are notorious for fielding units that are not allowed by the very codex that author supposedly just wrote. How about a WD game where they actually played it? Since I haven't bought any WD for almost 10 years now, to be when the play a game of WD it's like lip syncing. They are not actually playing a game, but just pretending to play a game. In other words they game is not real, made up to make it "look good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hmm, I wonder, how will the penalties look like for the other races if they elect to use the malefic daemonology. I have also done some counts, D6 + mastery levels gives us a slight advantage since we can field Mastery Level 3 psykers for cheap and I am of the mind to run them barebones, at maximum with the Aura of Dark Glory for that ++ save. With two psykers we could have D6 + 6 power dice to use, I presume we could use one or two powers more than the loyalists per turn... Now if the Daemonology lore is the sort of swiss knife I think it will be I guess one Daemonologist will be mandatory in our armies, though I would hope for some sort of mechanic that would allow us of Chaos to do some rerolls on powers if we sacrifice some cultists or daemons for it... that would be in character and allow us a slight boost in the psychic phase,... but that will only remain a wish, I presume. What troubles me is that the Thousand Sons will still have a hard time, for the unit is expensive and the points limit our investment in more Sorcerers or even Ahriman. Unbound or Battle Forged, I really hope for a considerable boost to a lore which should be the best for us, useful but dangerous for the other books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 We might get something. I'm really not trying to harsh on it. I'm just trying to say not to get your hopes up, as the WD description sounds more like it's talking about daemon casters rather than chaos casters in general when it mentions 'daemonic kin' getting bonuses to malefic daemonology. The troubled state of the sons is an issue, but it's not a new one, and isn't even one that started with our current codex. There hasn't really been anything yet to indicate that the new rules would change them for the better, but I wouldn't expect them to get worse, either. If the total casting dice are pooled, then thousand son aspiring sorcerers might be able to effectively 'gift' their casting and dispel dice to our HQ sorcerers, letting them throw more dice at individual spells. Not clear yet if that's possible, but if it is that would be something at least. Then the lack of actual spell access on the aspiring sorcerers could be mitigated thanks to better access on the HQs - though again unmarked sorcerers would have an easier time taking advantage of it. Or Ahriman, I suppose. He may be overpriced, but at least his spell access is as good as a lv3 unaligned sorcerer, and the extra casting and dispel dice may (may!) mean more for him in 7e than the extra psyker charge has meant for him in 6e. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Here are some more rumors. Looks like lots of level 1 psykers + 1 or 2 lvl 3/4 psykers will be pretty powerful for defense in some form or another. http://daemons40k.blogspot.com/2014/05/i-have-some-7th-edition-infos-psychic.html Downside: casting even basic spells is now going to be much harder (50% success rate per die per charge level, instead of a really high for LD 10 casts for any level to go off. Also greatly increases odds of miscasting. So I guess bringing a horde of psykers with spell familiars with be strong. Fateweaver + Tzeentch demons + 1k sons and Eldar will be the two dominant psychic forces in 7th edition in my estimation. Depending on the new powers, a fluffy Tzeentch CSM/Daemons army might be really powerful (I hope the wording removes the lore requirement in CSM book). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Wow!!!!! http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ebrdfUNyc3o/U3Eztl-VG8I/AAAAAAAAB_4/qGYSq_FHDtw/s1600/Daemonology_zps96207013.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 It is bloody DAEMONS time! I have a full battalion at the ready to be summoned, leaving me ample space for a full CSM army with only token Chaos Daemons allies. The rest will be either summons or deep strikers. And you know, an extra Herald of Tzeentch or Slaanesh at the right time can be a real game changer, as it can be an extra Bloodthirster. People argue, why summon when you can field them as allies. Well because the summon will only cost me warp charges and some dice rolls, no points. Points that can now go into an extra Heldrake or an extra Obliterator squad. And you know, all the sudden those extra Mastery Levels for 25 points seem to be a great investment. Those extra levels might actually become an extra squad of Daemonettes or Horrors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Sweet mother of mercy those things have got some power going on! It would be nice if we cast them easier or something. I can see me digging out some daemons. I hope to all the Dark Gods they errata compulsary Psychic choices out. Then laugh maniacally as the Thousand Son army summons Daemon hordes by the dozen. TBH though, even they don't, I can see great potential in an army with Ahriman, a level 3 Sorcerer and as many MSU TS units as possible then dumping as many choices into Malefic as possible. Something along the lines of Ahriman, 2 Lvl 3 Sorcerers, 1 Helldrake and 7 units of TS with Rhino's and Havoc Launchers for a 2k army. That's 17 power dice a turn :o Okay it's an extreme but you could likely fire off a least 1 summoning a turn, and as the Sorcerers are unmarked could have everything in Malefic. Quite scary to have 30 extra models turn up a turn at least. Or of course, you could take 3 Sorcerers, a few Marines and a bucket of Cultists and have that Daemon Summoning Word Bearer force that sacrifices Cultists that mummy and daddy always promised you. (also.... It feels dirty and wrong to get excited on the Chaos section of BnC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I see only one problem though, the loyalist scum will be spamming daemons too. So much for the goody two shoes... the bastards. It should have been a Chaos only lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Yeah, I sincerely hope there is some slap for summoning daemons for loyalist armies. But on the plus side, which loyalist armies can get as many psykers in as Chaos? Wait.... Crap.... oh no.... Grey Knights.... I hate those guys. Seriously though if Grey Knights can summon daemons tables will be flipped. Tables the size of Titans, made from trees older than the Roman Empire, and those tables will land squarely on GW HQ, rage will cast that 3000 year old table those 50 or so miles needed to crush that puny design team... Also, Eldar better not be able to, that would be a level of insane unheard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Seriously though if Grey Knights can summon daemons tables will be flipped. It would help reinforce the Grey Knights of Khorne concept even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Bwahhhhhhhahahhaha... So glad I was already painting up Daemons! I agree with Tenebris, why pay for what you can just summon? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 My WB, WE, and DG are pleased, especially my WB and DG because I could sacrifice at least 60 cultist/plague zombies for some daemons fun. Now I need to get a few units of horrors, deamonettes, and other tzeentch/slaanesh daemons, I lack in that department extremely. Maybe start a warband for each god(Already have one for undivided, khorne, nurgle, etc) GW sure know how to make their player base spend money :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The first power on the chart is REALLY REALLY strong for daemon armies and daemon units. It will also discourage non-chaos psykers from rolling on the table. Want an army that is fluffy and powerful?AhrimanLevel 3 Sorc with spell familiar20 cultists3 squads of Thousand Sons with 3 lvl 1 psykersPossessed Crimson slaughter lvl 3 sorcerer with Mark of Tzeentch with +2/3+ and IWND2x squads of possessed troopsThen add a couple Tzeentch-themed Heldrakes....3+ invulnerable saves on a bunch of scoring units with the +1 blessing up, 13 +d6 psyker dice a turn, and daemons being summoned everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 My idea of a fun psyker list. 1850. Ahriman, ML4 (Last Memories) Sorcerer, Fateweaver 2x 7 1K Sons, 2x 11 Pink Horrors, and 12 Cultists Heldrake, ML3 Prince of Tzeentch Could drop the 2 Cultists or a couple of 1K Sons for gifts on the Daemon Prince. Take Portalglyph and spawn Horrors. Starting Dice Pool is 19+D6 or 21+D6 depending on how the Horrors +1 Warp Charge fpr beimg over 10 works. Spawn Horrors from Portalglyph to get more dice in the pool, then spawn a Herald of Tzeentch with Grimiore. From there, use all the dice to spawn what ever daemons you need for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 The Cursed Earth psychic power has a lot of surprising synergy with the Chaos Space Marine codex; it actually makes our sorcerers homing beacons for the likes of Obliterators, Warp Talons et al. Utilising Unbound army list construction, it looks like daemon bomb army lists are most definitely back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 The Cursed Earth psychic power has a lot of surprising synergy with the Chaos Space Marine codex; it actually makes our sorcerers homing beacons for the likes of Obliterators, Warp Talons et al. Utilising Unbound army list construction, it looks like daemon bomb army lists are most definitely back. Yep, this is going to make for some insane levels of options now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well... now I want a Sorc again. :cussing badgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 First off, it looks cool but really, really strong. Definitely stronger than Divination is now, which could be bad news. I'm happy we finally get some proper chaos powers, not just a bunch of crappy witchfires, but if Daemonology is head and shoulders better than the others, I guess we will have to prepare to battle daemons on a regular basis. Also, lets not forget what was previously said, that casting malefic powers was really risky for non-daemonkin, so maybe some of the background will still be retained on the tabletop. Or it will punish our Sorcerers as harshly as everyone else, which is often the case when it comes to CSM and GW. Give them something cool, just make sure it doesn't work (Dimensional Key is an embodiment of this). Chaos will be the new black so to say, but my heart sort of drops thinking of all the daemon-summoning Eldrads and Tigurius we might see on the other side of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well, every list will now have at least one Sorcerer with Daemonology, simply because the Primaris power allows for a free scoring unit which actually very useful and kind of swiss knife to our lists. For example, my adversary decided to go heavy with a termicide strike, thus I summon a squad of Daemonettes to impale some of those terminators. I am facing some heavies or monstrous creatures in my half of the board, well then the Plagubearer squad is of great help. Do I have to face some nasty power armor, then why not summon in some Bloodletters, and do I really, really wish to be evil and cap that lone objective for the entire game, than Horrors it is. Said that, the other power look very favorable for our gameplay. As I have said, should we summon a Herald it can be a gamechanger at the right time in the right place, especially if it comes with 50 points of options. We actually have summonable duelling characters, horde killers and an extra sorcerer if we need them. As for the Greater Daemon part, well lets just say, no wise chaos lord would ever say no to an extra Bloodthirster. Sure it is al dispellable, and probably it will be countered by the sanctic part of daemonology. But even one extra squad of lesser daemons can be very beneficial, for we all know that daemons in their current incarnation, are bloody good. Almost every option has something beneficial for a chaos army. But the important thing is that those extra 50 points for two mastery levels can actually mean an extra daemon unit for free. All in all a Thousand Sons army will become a summoning bot, with heavy on Daemonology lore. But actually any chaos army will from now on buy at least one Sorcerer and ally in a second one. We have the advantage in the warp charge count due to our powerful and cheap sorcerers, I think it is high time that we show those loyalist runts, why the power of Chaos is so tempting for a mortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliGn Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Anyone else notice how Malefic Demonology is a simple cash grab by gw? Now everyone who wants to use it needs a copy of codex chaos daemons before even considering summonable models. In the rumoured rules it suggests that the dispel pool is equal to that of the casters, this seems a bit naff, although if it remains based on the respective mastery levels of the opposing forces and only the d6 roll is shared then it would work. Otherwise you only increase the odds of being dispelled by increasing your own power. Either way this looks like it'll be seriously fun. Time to work out what to use as my Word Bearers new Daemonologist, and some daemons to back him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Just read the Malefic lore and it is insanely fluffy/good/cool. Would it be ok to write about it in more detail here? Or does that violate board rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I wonder if they'll errata Huron so he has a chance of rolling on it? Dragonlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 We still have to know how the Psychic Phase actually works though...but I'm definitely dusting off my Thousand Sons after this news! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 ...I am deeply uncomfortable with the level of optimism being expressed in this thread I mean, this is CHAOS, after all :P Seriously, whilst there is part of this that is quite exciting, I'm tempering this with the knowledge that we still do not know exactly how the Psychic Phase is going to work. Also, if the rumours about psychic powers being lost if failed to activate, given how easy it is for certain armies/units to DTW Psychic powers at the moment, I'm uncertain how quickly I'll be dusting off my lesser daemonic minions just yet. Time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Dudes post 79 in this very tread has rumours of how is Psychic phase going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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