Daemonology

[MaliGn]

With the way that rumours are increasingly unreliable it could even be that we're going to get a new codex, especially since there is a requirement for clarification on marked daemonologists and khornate response tons psychic phase, back in second Ed khorne had significant anti psychic abilities that have dwindled but are now increasingly relevant. That and we had an early book in every edition since second.

 

I still think that we need to see the nature of the santic powers before we can truly judge but the ability to add a couple of hundred points to your army each turn is not to be sniffed at, especially since those points can be put into another potential daemonologist. With good rolls you could almost double your army.

 

You can just tell that every enemy psyker is going to at least take one santic power if you tell them that you're taking chaos.

[daboarder]

Closest rumored chaos supplement is actually this summer, maybe mid July.  But for a supplement that's still a little far out to be super credible.  Even if it were true, there is no word on what it is.  I'd honestly expect a daemons supplement before another CSM one, and if it is a CSM book I would not expect one based on the heresy legions while FW's heresy thing is still ongoing.

FWs heresy thing isnt going to end, its taking up to another 2 years before they even get to prospero. They are going to drag HH out till it stops making money then drop it without having ever got close to terra

[Sception]

I never claimed otherwise.

[Plague Angel]

 

 

Closest rumored chaos supplement is actually this summer, maybe mid July.  But for a supplement that's still a little far out to be super credible.  Even if it were true, there is no word on what it is.  I'd honestly expect a daemons supplement before another CSM one, and if it is a CSM book I would not expect one based on the heresy legions while FW's heresy thing is still ongoing.

FWs heresy thing isnt going to end, its taking up to another 2 years before they even get to prospero. They are going to drag HH out till it stops making money then drop it without having ever got close to terra

 

 

Just like Black Library!

[daboarder]

I never claimed otherwise.

didnt mean to imply you had, merely pointing out that the conclusion of that statement would then be that GW is NEVER going to give CSMs their due, at least not for another decade

[DoomulusPrime]

 

I never claimed otherwise.

didnt mean to imply you had, merely pointing out that the conclusion of that statement would then be that GW is NEVER going to give CSMs their due, at least not for another decade

I don't see why they couldn't, as 30k and 40k are two different games really, and Space Marine Legion rules (even those of the Traitor Legions)would be drastically different from any rules for Chaos-corrupted legions in the 41st millennium.

 

Not that I disagree with you...I'm very cynical about GW ever giving us Legion rules. Just trying to look On the brighter side of things.

[daboarder]

I dont see why they couldnt either, but this is GW we are talking about

[DoomulusPrime]

I dont see why they couldnt either, but this is GW we are talking about

Touché.

[brother_contagion]

Not sure if this has shown up already, but found this info on a Facebook group:

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10303753_494633743992893_3157978785069465082_n.jpg

 

Quoted from the person who posted the picture:

 

 

Only models with the Daemon special rule can manifest Malefic powers as normal but cannot use Sanctic powers. 

 

Psykers from Codex: Grey Knights can manifest Sanctic Powers as normal

but cannot use Malefic powers at all

 

Another psyker that try to manifest any of the Santic/Malefic powers will suffer a perils on any double regardless if successful or not.

[daboarder]

yeah thats accurate, depending on the perils that could mean that we dont use it or we dont give two shakes in the breeze for perils.

 

but we just have no idea what perils does other than 2 wound psykers likely being able to survive it at least once

[Hellrender]

i wonder how the spell familiar gets FAQed. For just 2 dice it works perfectly now. But if you roll 6+ dice, and have 1 double, you dont want to reroll all of them. I hope (very carefully) they say that you can re-roll up to dice when making your psychic test. That would make CSM sorcerers ''decently'' at Demonology without takin the risk completly away.

[brother_contagion]

Well we could have Princes summon or Heralds, and with the new Unbound armies you could have multiple Princes or Heralds with your Chaos force.

[Excessus]

You all react as if it's a certanty that #1, you roll that power, and #2, you get it off without the opponent dispelling it.

[Plague Angel]

#3, have enough power dice each turn to get it off repeatedly.

 

#4, have enough turns to finish casting the power the number of turns you're counting on it...

 

Trust a WHFB player. Even when magic is very powerful in the edition, building your entire list around spamming a single expensive spell is not a good decision.

[Nehekhare]

Not sure if this has shown up already, but found this info on a Facebook group:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10303753_494633743992893_3157978785069465082_n.jpg

Quoted from the person who posted the picture:

Only models with the Daemon special rule can manifest Malefic powers as normal but cannot use Sanctic powers.

Another psyker that try to manifest any of the Santic/Malefic powers will suffer a perils on any double regardless if successful or not.

so no daemon summoning for CSM sorcerers. that makes sense

can't see how perils on all doubles in a discipline with mostly warpcharge 3 powers would be a good idea. ever.

surprisingly, it works fine with 30k word bearers, since their diabolists are daemons.

but I guess everybody will keep fielding at least one coteaz against daemon problems...the question is: will sanctic affect possessed, warp talons and oblits, too?

[Excessus]

Hopefully not. It would be devastating to have PE daemons/psykers and sanctic powers against you when you rely on oblits for effective shooting...and mutilators/warptalons/possessed gets even less useful...

[totgeboren]

so no daemon summoning for CSM sorcerers. that makes sense

can't see how perils on all doubles in a discipline with mostly warpcharge 3 powers would be a good idea. ever.

surprisingly, it works fine with 30k word bearers, since their diabolists are daemons.

but I guess everybody will keep fielding at least one coteaz against daemon problems...the question is: will sanctic affect possessed, warp talons and oblits, too?

Kinda cool about the 30k WB, I hadn't though of that. But yeah, I think it's a safe bet that Santic will affect models with the Daemon special rule. Possessed, Warp Talons and Molesters (Mutilators) are obviously so op that we need a whole discipline dedicated to nerfing them!

On the other hand, Santic will also be a 'perils on any double' discipline, though I don't think we will see many warp charge 3 powers. Perils on any double isn't that bad if you have warp charge 1 and 2 powers. It's just the warp charge 3 ones really suffer from such a rule.

I just hope Santic doesn't have something like 'Banishment: One unit with the Daemon special rule within 12" is removed from play.' But we will just have to wait and see.

[Tenebris]

I think that one Herald of Tzeentch and one unit of Horrors will be a staple in our army lists. They generate a solid amount of power dice and are both classified as Daemons. All in all this removes the need for Portalgyph since Daemonmancy is IMO better, but also gives the chaos players a solid defence from enemy warp powers. The Horrors will become the top Daemon unit I suspect. Place them in a ruin, use them to summon or to dispel and all this for mere 90 points. Also the Horrors will have a scaling mechanic already inbuilt, the more of them you have, the more you will be able to cast. But I think two squads of ten would suffice, especially if you focus on Daemonolgoy and thus get the Summon Primaris for free. 

 

All in all not bad, I think that the Thousand Sons and the Sorcerers will take the role of artillery should some proper powers be given to the other disciplines. I wish Pyromancy to be strong. 

[EricBasser]

I would still take the portalglyph. Its 0 warpcharges to make Horrors that gives you more warp charges next turn. The summoning power you need 6-7 warp charges to get it off reliably. If you summon a herald, you get 30 points of upgrades. While this is good, you can't deploy the portalglyph until your next turn. So thats a turn a single herald is sitting all alone. I would always start with the portalglyph on allied Herald or Daemon Prince. Utilize the extra turn of pooping out horrors and safety of joining a unit and placement.

[incinerator950]

so no daemon summoning for CSM sorcerers. that makes sense

can't see how perils on all doubles in a discipline with mostly warpcharge 3 powers would be a good idea. ever.

surprisingly, it works fine with 30k word bearers, since their diabolists are daemons.

but I guess everybody will keep fielding at least one coteaz against daemon problems...the question is: will sanctic affect possessed, warp talons and oblits, too?

Kinda cool about the 30k WB, I hadn't though of that. But yeah, I think it's a safe bet that Santic will affect models with the Daemon special rule. Possessed, Warp Talons and Molesters (Mutilators) are obviously so op that we need a whole discipline dedicated to nerfing them!

On the other hand, Santic will also be a 'perils on any double' discipline, though I don't think we will see many warp charge 3 powers. Perils on any double isn't that bad if you have warp charge 1 and 2 powers. It's just the warp charge 3 ones really suffer from such a rule.

I just hope Santic doesn't have something like 'Banishment: One unit with the Daemon special rule within 12" is removed from play.' But we will just have to wait and see.

That's exactly what I'm hoping for actually.

[totgeboren]

That's exactly what I'm hoping for actually.

How come? A power like that seems really harsh for us who use daemon units. Excepting the Daemons out of the daemon codex(since they are obviously daemons), I also use all the daemon engines on a regular basis, not to mention possessed and oblits.

 

If santic has access to some sort of anti-summoning, I'll have to ally in a Tzeentch Herald with a Portalglyph just to spam horrors so I get enough dispel dice to save my 300+ points Possessed unit from being removed from play.

 

It would suck to be forced to take lots and lots of anti-psychic stuff to be able to field a pretty sub-par unit (Possessed). And just removing a Maulerfiend, like that, would not be very fun.

 

CSM don't seem to get any special bonuses when it comes to daemonology, yet we will suffer the full force of the Santic powers, who I think will be much easier to cast than the Malefic.

 

I don't want to be excessive negative, but so far the biggest loser in all of this seem to be CSM, and especially CSM who field lots of stuff with the Daemon special rule (like me!).

[Nehekhare]

I think it's hilarious that people want to take more psykers now that they effectively half their warpcharges and can be denied on a 3+.

 

 

the Horrors will have a scaling mechanic already inbuilt, the more of them you have, the more you will be able to cast.

 

All in all not bad, I think that the Thousand Sons and the Sorcerers will take the role of artillery should some proper powers be given to the other disciplines. I wish Pyromancy to be strong. 

 

6 dice minimum for the malefic primaris while 10 summoned horrors generate only 1 put an end to that scaling very fast if you're not playing unbound Fateweaver +15 lvl3 heralds already. Thousand Sons aspiring sorcerers get only the Tzeentch powers (which keep on sucking) while Tzeentch-marked CSM sorcerers cannot have primaris powers at all (min 1/max 2 powers means not being able to take all your powers from any discipline). 

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

 

That's exactly what I'm hoping for actually.

How come? A power like that seems really harsh for us who use daemon units. Excepting the Daemons out of the daemon codex(since they are obviously daemons), I also use all the daemon engines on a regular basis, not to mention possessed and oblits.If santic has access to some sort of anti-summoning, I'll have to ally in a Tzeentch Herald with a Portalglyph just to spam horrors so I get enough dispel dice to save my 300+ points Possessed unit from being removed from play.It would suck to be forced to take lots and lots of anti-psychic stuff to be able to field a pretty sub-par unit (Possessed). And just removing a Maulerfiend, like that, would not be very fun.CSM don't seem to get any special bonuses when it comes to daemonology, yet we will suffer the full force of the Santic powers, who I think will be much easier to cast than the Malefic.I don't want to be excessive negative, but so far the biggest loser in all of this seem to be CSM, and especially CSM who field lots of stuff with the Daemon special rule (like me!).

When have we ever not been the biggest loser?

[Clone]

You all realise chaos can never lose if your opponent uses malefic demonology. If you win, you win but if the opponent wins you can claim victory for causing the enemy to fall to chaos.

 

I will enjoy these games to come...

[MaliGn]

You all realise chaos can never lose if your opponent uses malefic demonology. If you win, you win but if the opponent wins you can claim victory for causing the enemy to fall to chaos.

I will enjoy these games to come...

This is like my theory that tyranids always win, even if a particular collections of lifeforms are destroyed the planet is still doomed.