Inquisitor Kravin Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Hi Everyone This is just a bit of speculation, not an attempt to game the system or break the system. I was wondering about mixing the 40k Space Marine Codex and the Legions lists. The reason is that I like the short story where Captain Ventanus is bascially "playtesting" Guilliman's new codex and the concepts set out in it. This presumably involves things like smaller more varied unit composition, combat squads etc. I was toying with the idea of a main force chosen from the 40k Codex to represent Ventanus's force and then maybe a Legion force to represent either another company of Ultramarines who hadn't yet been reorganised or surviviors from another Legion such as Polux's Imperial Fists who wouldn't change their doctrine without the approval of Dorn. Obviously some discretion would be required - no Razorbacks or Annihilators for example. It could be Unremembered Empire era or perhaps early Scouring. Obviously the two allies matrices don't overlap so I think they would have to be Allies of Convenience - even if the Legion force were Ultras the idea would be that they functioned separately so that Guilliman had a control group against which to measure his new doctrines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I dont think this should be in this board. Idea wise, it sounds very interesting... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3679390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Bumped over to the Heresy forums. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3679395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Kravin Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Thank you Brother Casman. I could have sworn I had started this thread in the Heresy forum but apparently not. You recognised my failing and were sure to correct it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3679748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 As it states in the HH Vol. I: Betrayal: "For games of 1,500 points or less we advise that you instead use the standard Force Organisation chart found on page 109 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, while for considerably larger games, the Apocalypse game expansion is recommended." So, for 30K/40K battles, we're already there. Non-heresy tech can be considered new experimental stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3679773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Except that 40k stuff is dramatically worse than the Age of Darkness and Great Crusade technology. The only real benefit I see the 40k UM getting is And They Shall Know No Fear. Beyond that, they're paying a lot of points for Space Marine stats, losing out on a lot of great wargear and a lot of great vehicles, and extremely diluted firepower. I'm curious how they'll stack up, but I can't imagine the Codex Astartes won't get blown off the board by their Legion brethren. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3679797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I imagined something like this as an "End of Days" type of campaign or force were the primarchs are back and fighting alongside the legions. I don't know how it would meld though. I guess more guys but with 40k technology? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3679808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 40k marines in the current codex are better. Able to mix Drop Pods in lists with tanks and flyers, Grav Centurions and other goodies... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3679844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 You could say, perhaps, that all units with Chapter Tactics: (*) or all units chosen from Codex: Blood Angels or Codex: Space Wolves, count as having the appropriate Legiones Astartes rule for the purposes of the Primarch's "Sire of the (*)" rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3679960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Actually, Would it be interesting to try a game with Legion rules replacing chapter tactics? So an imperial fist tactical squad would have +1 BS when shooting bolters instead of re-rolling 1's. Or maybe buying a veteran sergeant unlocks the USR's like veteran tactical squads in 30k? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3679996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Too much Killy stuff in 40k for Primarchs to be fun. They'd get chewed up by Riptides or Centurions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3680139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Word Bearers + Chaos Daemons is precedence. As long as there are no Imperial Army units in HH, Astra Militarum is acceptable imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3680263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 It could work, but only in the right context. I've often thought of using the pre-Hereesy rules for my Angels Sanguine as my homebrew fluff has them as a hyper traditional chapter who still see themselves as part of the IX Legion first and foremost. Alled to another successor using 'modern' Blood Angels rules it could be quite fun. Running Primarchs against Nids and Tau would also make for a cool 'what if?' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3680292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Honestly, I should ask this question: do you think it would be acceptable to use Legion tactics for Codex Space marines? Totally replace chapter tactics, but still keep the same units. Special characters I'm not sure about, so basically only the Legion rules for an army. Would it be balanced? would there be any big holes in this idea? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3680473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Only if it also replaces ATSKNF. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3680807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I have no issues with a 30k force fighting a 40k army... The warp works in mysterious ways lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3680811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Kravin Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 I wasn't talking about 30k fighting 40k, I was talking about 30k ALLYING with 40k to represent that transition period late Heresy/early Scouring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3681123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 How compatible are the points scales between 40k and 30k? How well do Legion lists play against 40k Eldar, IG, or Ork lists? Can the 40k lists be used as stand-ins for opposition forces to the Great Crusade? Or does one side or another have too much of a mismatch? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3691408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I fully intend to take Select units from the Heresy Books in my Ultra Awesome "Chaos" Army of Doom (using stuff like Death Company and Grey Knights, Vanilla Sternguard, Ravenwing, etc.) I've always looked at the disparity between Loyalist Units and the Chaos units and...felt like I got the "not movie quality" wookie mask here. I don't know if it will work, or even that it will win-but I here's what I know: Loyalist 40k armies get the best rules. Period, end of line. Pining around for "The Old Days" of 3.5 (where you can currently remake most of the lists 'almost' and will certainly be able to with Unbound in 7th-excepting Veteran skills). I'm basically going to be taking the elements of the various Space Marine armies that I like and making my own 'army'. They will still likely get :cuss-Rocked by my friends' Foot-Dar army just like my Red Corsairs do...but I'm going to have more reliable 'tools in the tool box' without having to use Daemons (which I don't really care for). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3691440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 You could just run the rite of war pride of the legion and run a bunch of veteran tactical squads as troops. Veterans have access to heavy/ special weapons like 40k tacticals do. This would be the best way to represent this if you dont want people accusing you of cherry picking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290804-mixing-30k-and-40k-space-marine-lists/#findComment-3691448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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