Mixed wing tactica?

[Plague Angel]

DW and RW tacticas are out there, floating around to be found on search engines. So are general codex overviews with summaries of every unit.

 

But as someone with less familiarity with your codex than all of you here, I've seen talk of mixed wing armies mentioned off-hand, but no actual tactica here (or on any other website I've searched on, for that matter). While I'm sure the lists have their problems, inheriting all the weaknesses of mono-wing lists in addition to weaknesses of their own, I'm still curious how the more experienced Unforgiven players would go about doing it. Whether it's a Belial list with FA Ravenwing, a Sammael list with Elite DWK support, or an Azrael list of some kind, there isn't a lot of advice introducing players new to the codex to that style.

 

And, at least in my experience, the mixed wing seems more likely to entice and tempt converts from other armies, even on a superficial level, with the most amount of unique units separating the codex from other all-Terminator or all-Bike armies.

[Cpt_Reaper]

I tend to play with "greenwing" as my main force, using Death/Ravenwing in support roles. The classic Unforgiven gunline works well when either a Deathwing squad teleports behind the enemy or a Ravenwing squad outflanks.

[Darkangeldentist]

You are right there is a gap in the plethora of tacticas and list dicussion threads out there, although some do talk about how different elements work together. Mostly these tend to appear in list discussion threads though due to the very specific nature of their focus. I recently finished a thread talking my use of a mostly Deathwing list that utilised a librarian on bike with black knight command squad and I imagine there are other similar topics that initially appear as single wing tacticas. (Under the previous book I also championed doublewing useing an almost equal mix of Deathwing and Ravenwing. Still feel that the combination works well.)

 

The current book certainly makes Dark angels capable of some incredibly diverse and interesting list configurations.

 

Deathwing with their low model count treasure anything that can either counter common solutions to terminators, add mobility and up the volume of attacks in the list. Black knights and a ravenwing command squad are possibly the best unit in the entire book for this role. Scouts and Marines can add bodies to up the scoring unit content along with addition firepower but I find Ravenwing are the best complimentary additions.

 

Ravenwing conversely want a hammer and anvil style unit they can chuck into the face of the enemy and use as a buffer to distract opponents whilst they abuse their hit and run abilities. Deathwing knights fulfil this role almost perfectly and Sammael adds some truly scary benefits to them if he joins the knights. As a hit and run army ravenwing can inflict a lot of damage early on but they have almost as low a model count as deathwing but much less resilience most of the time due to their inferior armour save. Drop pod borne assault marines or veterans can also add some good tools to a mostly ravenwing force but the key in all cases is a strong, powerful distraction piece that will suck up enemy atention immediately. Turn one arrival and placement of this dstraction threat is essential because Ravenwing get into position to over-run opponent so quickly.

 

Azrael runs a fully mixed list very well, since Deathwing and Ravenwing become troops in addition to regular marines he makes it very easy to create an army of scoring units. A few tactical squads backed up by ravenwing attack squadrons and deathwing terminator squads creates a seemingly classically styled space marine army where just about everything is a scoring unit. Azrael himself greatly aids any squad he joins but most commonly he works best with a regular tactical squad, the invulnerable save from the lion helm makes the whole unit more resistent to enemy attacks and Azrael can put out a lot of high strength attacks at AP3. His bonuses work well with terminators and bikes but his lack of bike or terminator armour means that he can't deploy as effectively with them for the early game. Mid to late game he might join them and add his might to the unit but I have found him entirely worth it just helping a tactical squad.

 

A basic greenwing army is the most flexible of all in terms of choice for mixing any and all of the options available to Dark angels. It's easy to think Azrael might be better for options but his changing ravenwing and deathwing to troops actually makes it harder to include units like Deathwing/Ravenwing knights due to the cost. These units can never be scoring units but take up similar roles overall to regular deathwing and ravenwing which means that Azrael gives an active incentive to taking the regular units since they will be scoring. An interrogator chaplain, company master and/or librarian can be kept cheap or made expensive to suit and a core of marines need not take up a huge chunk of your army points. Elites and fast attack are free to fill as you wish with any of the options there. I've tried and enjoyed a pretty wide variety of combinations and most are good, perhaps not as competitive as a list focused more towards Belial or Sammael but definitely capable.

 

I'm going to have a think about writing something more comprehensive and helpful.

 

[Brother dean]

So get a mod to rename this thread and we will build one...

 

I've only used Greenwing once this edition but I can see an Azrael list making everything troops being an effective list, just about everything would be scoring...  (now that the edition is changing and scoring may not matter)

[Tanhausen]

You can do a Dark Angels tactica and analyze on a per unit basis.

 

but I don't think you can actually do a mixed wing tactica.

 

At least in the way I understand a tactica (and please correct me if I'm mistaken), it is a document which tackles the general sense, use and purpose of the elements it studies.

 

A mixed wing, per definition, is neither a Greenwing, Deathwing nor Ravenwing (which are "pure" wings).

 

So if you want to analyze the different mixtures of these three elements...you end up reviewing the whole codex.

 

Examples of mixed wing:

 

- A DW heavy build with a unit of ravenwing Black Kinghts unit

 

- A RW heavy list with a unit of terminators and a couple of rifleman dreads

 

- Any list you throw in a few scouts, the odd dreadnought and a whirlwind whilst basing yourself on either terminators and/or bikes

 

This being said, I'd be more than glad to aid in the effort to develop a DA tactica when 7th hits the boards (not much sense in doing that now IMHO)

[Plague Angel]

Yeah, 7th is going to change things anyways. But I wasn't asking you guys to do a bunch of work for me, just wondering if you knew of previous threads or articles (here or elsewhere) that had already covered the subject. If they're out there, I haven't been able to find them.

[Tanhausen]

AFAIk, there ain't no tactica for mixed lists for the reasons stated above.

 

As suggested by the Brothers, you can gather some info in the lists section.

 

Here are a couple of links you might find useful:

 

- a 1850 mixed wing list with quite a bit of detail and conclusions about the units here

 

- lists ideas and comments that include Azrael here

 

Hope it helps

[Cactus]

I think Tanhausen has it. The discussion around non-specialised Dark Angels is usually framed as "How do I get the most from unit X, in an army with units A and B?" and not "How best to play mixed Dark Angels?"