Leif Bearclaw Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 It's Dark Angels - Alpha Legion White Scars - World Eaters Space Wolves - Thousand Sons Imperial Fists - Iron Warriors Blood Angels - Sons of Horus Iron Hands - Emperor's Children Ultramarines - Word Bearers Salamanders - Death Guard Raven Guard - Night Lords According to me. Would you mind explaining why you paired the DAs with the Alphas and the Scars with the WE? I get most of the others, but don't see any particularly strong reason for those 2 pairs. If anything I'd go the other way around. The Scars speed and independence vs the also highly independent yet more measured Alphas. The ordered, knightly aesthetic of the DAs vs the barbaric, bloodthirsty and chaotic WEs, it's practically middle ages Christian propaganda already . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3681340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I could see Raven Guard being pretty astute at handling Alpha Legion, perhaps. They've got the guerilla warfare and counter insurgency down, but not so much the intelligence or asymmetrical warfare schlock. Obviously they can be infiltrated and sabotaged. I really don't know how Dark Angels would be a good counter to Alpha Legion, they don't have much to support that. Honestly, the XXth Legion's modus operandi is so alien from the other Legion's, it's difficult to actually come up with a decent plan to defeat them. Maybe Thousand Sons due to their sorcery? Probably not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3681364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Why does it have to be one legion. Raven Guard forces them out, Iron Warriors hold them in places, Blood Angels tear them a new one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3681397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 That definitely says something if you need three Legions to counter one. I think the OP is more or less looking for the foil of the Alpha Legion. I vote the 2nd Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3681429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Well im just being safe. Would you want to face any legion with just one of your own. Russ took Custodes and Sisters of Silence to face the 1ksons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3681440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Well it seems like in a perfect world, the Wolves would have actually been accompanied by the Night Lords. However, since Prospero happened after they went renegade, that wasn't really an option. Night Lords were my first option, but I don't really think they'd be able to counter the Alpha Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3681453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Edit: nevermind Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3681455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristeo Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 The Alpha Legion must have seen the Raven Guard as a threat considering the events in Deliverance Lost. The Raven Guard came pretty close to being utterly wiped out, gene-seed and all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3681495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Why, the answer to this is obvious: the II and the XI. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3681497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Why, the answer to this is obvious: the II and the XI. That's why we took them out, obviously! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3681525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 It's Dark Angels - Alpha Legion White Scars - World Eaters Space Wolves - Thousand Sons Imperial Fists - Iron Warriors Blood Angels - Sons of Horus Iron Hands - Emperor's Children Ultramarines - Word Bearers Salamanders - Death Guard Raven Guard - Night Lords According to me. I like.... Iron Warriors - Imperial Fists Night Lords - Salamanders Iron Hands - Emperors Children White Scars - Death Guard Raven Guard - Alpha Legion Sons of Horus - Dark Angels World Eaters - Blood Angels Word Bearers - Ultramarines Thousand Sons - Wolves But lists are fun to discuss either way. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3681542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Personally, and I know this breaks up the Wolves v TS vibe, but I think the White Scars would counter the Thousand Sons very well. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I like.... Iron Warriors - Imperial Fists Night Lords - Salamanders Iron Hands - Emperors Children White Scars - Death Guard Raven Guard - Alpha Legion Sons of Horus - Dark Angels World Eaters - Blood Angels Word Bearers - Ultramarines Thousand Sons - Wolves But lists are fun to discuss either way. I'd swap the positions of the Blood Angels and the Salamanders personally, but yeah. That's roughly how I'd put it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Carnelian Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I think what we might all be losing sight of is that the Emperor never intended for one legion to have to counter another. They were each given roles, yes, but those were to complement each other (ideally). The legions do pair up well, but it was not intended to be a fight club with one another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Well a bit of justification on my part. IW - IF, self explanatory. NL - Sallies, I take it from the angle on their views of humanity. One of punishment, and defense. Is that not reflective of the 30K Salamanders? I dont know. IH - EC, one embraces the flesh, the other removes it as weakness. WS - DG, fluidity, contrasted with endurance. RG - AL, both have something of a special ops lean to them AL comically so, in the HH fluff so far. WE - BA, have been linked for time immemorial. Its said I believe in the current BA codex that they would have been just as savage if not for Sanguinius' temperance. WB - Ultras, huge legions, both looking to build an empire, to very different ends. TS - Wolves, obvious for Prospero, but also for their approach to knowledge. One can never have enough, one knows that there is such a thing as too much. That leaves the SoH and DA, which honestly is a default as the last 2 remaining. I dont have any justification for this one. EDIT: Not to say these are counters, only contrasts against each other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 First Son vs. The First among Equals I think that's a fitting fight Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 The problem with looking for foils and rivalries or opposites or whatnot is that it turns into a clusterbomb real quick. Take Imperial Fists, for example. Yeah the Iron Warriors hate them, but so do Night Lords. Sons of Horus is hated by everyone Loyal for one reason or another, but then you have Thousand Sons who aren't just despised by Russ & Co. but also Mortarion and his Legion, who have rivalries with both Salamanders (for more or less wiping them off the map at Isstvan V) and now White Scars. It's a messy game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 The problem with looking for foils and rivalries or opposites or whatnot is that it turns into a clusterbomb real quick. Take Imperial Fists, for example. Yeah the Iron Warriors hate them, but so do Night Lords. Sons of Horus is hated by everyone Loyal for one reason or another, but then you have Thousand Sons who aren't just despised by Russ & Co. but also Mortarion and his Legion, who have rivalries with both Salamanders (for more or less wiping them off the map at Isstvan V) and now White Scars. It's a messy game. All true, just a thought exercise. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I had a long drawn out answer for why each legion has a direct opposite but the internet ate it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 That definitely says something if you need three Legions to counter one. I think the OP is more or less looking for the foil of the Alpha Legion. I vote the 2nd Legion. Why, the answer to this is obvious: the II and the XI. Too bad we got destroyed, now you'll never know... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 The Thousand Sons might be a good foil for the Alpha Legion. The Thousand Sons employ means the Alpha Legion cannot comprehend or prepare for, and at the same time the Thousand Sons' methods might help them to prepare against some of the Alpha Legion's otherwise unseen ploys. Other than that, the Raven Guard. I could see a clash between the two Legions ending up as both forces scattering into smaller hit squads, where individual squads from each side try to hunt down and get the drop on the others. And because lists are cool, this was allways my pairing: Imperial Fists / Iron Warriors ("I am siege face!") Blood Angels / World Eaters ("Rhaaa!" *rip* *smash*) White Scars / Night Lords ("Now I am over here, now I am over there", plus the occasional massive ferrocious assault) Ultramarines / Sons of Horus (all-purpose, exemplary, "leading" Legion) Dark Angels / Word Bearers (hyper religious WBs vs. the very monastic DA aesthetics, also no distinct doctrine on either side) Raven Guard / Alpha Legion (sneaky, no one in the campaign really knows where they currently are) Salamanders / Death Guard (high endurance, and favouring Infantry) Iron Hands / Emperor's Children (opposites rather than similarities, the IHs repress all emotion, the EC seek them) Space Wolves / Thousand Sons (well, because of Prospero, but also because they are both very "odd" Legions compared to the rest) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-chaplain Astador Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Ah man....I've seen too many spoilers in this thread :-( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 White Scars - Alpha Legion (mysterious, unknowable) Space Wolves - Thousand Sons (superstitious vs learned) Imperial Fists - Iron Warriors (siege) Iron Hands - Emperor's Children (machine vs Flesh) Ultramarines - Word Bearers (Large legions empire builders) Raven Guard - Night Lords (hiding in the darkness) Blood Angels - World Eaters (close combat is my fetish) Salamanders - Death Guard (endurance) Dark Angels - Sons of Horus (1st legion vs favourite Legion also IMO the two best strategists) and II - IX (Pirates vs Ninjas the eternal battle of whose cooler) Pirates Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Eh. "Being large" was never a trait of the Word Bearers in the past. They just sort of made them that way in the HH series out of necessity, because their attack on the Ultramarines had to be somewhat plausible. And IIRC they only really built up their size after being chastised, and perhaps specifically so they could attack the Ultramarines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 They only attacked with 50,000 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290863-which-legion-counters-the-alpha-legion/page/2/#findComment-3682470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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