Clone Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 So one of my regular opponents is an eldar player but I have yet to face him with my traitor guard (my main army is csm). I'm just looking for a bit of advice on what are useful units to use against Eldar in general. I had been thinking a wyvern battery would be effective against Eldar T3. Infantry squads with autocannons and prescience to take down wave serpents. I had thought pask in a punisher could be useful at taking down wraith constructs with rending though I'd worry about his bright lances, are leman russes generally not advised because of this and would the same apply to an Imperial Knight? Like I say, I'm looking for general advice when facing space elves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Knight is immune against lance effect by virtue of being a super-heavy. SH are immune to armour value modifiers. Wyvern is always a good pick vs xenos. You can pick off pesky cover camping units like Rangers and pile wounds on their other squads. As you mentioned, ACs everywhere does a dandy job. It handles their tanks and ignores some of their armour and will instagib most of their chars. Leman Russ Extermiantor is also nice here as if the dirt cheap Eradicator. Pask is a good pick but it will be tough to manage him and you will have to use the second tank in the squadron as extra wounds because you can bet your balls he will want to see him go down. But even with a lance he still needs a 5 to pen a tank, it's no melta. Chimera spam works rather well too because s6 will hurt most infantry and give him to targets to shoot. The essence here is to use target saturation to minizime his damage so you can unload. Also, take out his psychers. Without them the army falls apart quicker than most like to admit. The thing is, you can not outrun them, you can not out-trick them. Brute force is your best friend against them, and IG go it rather well. I'll soon play against a Wave Serpent spamming Iyanden player, let's see how that works out for my IG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3683713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Immer has the right of it. Against the perfidious eldars you need to stick to your strengths - numbers and fire power. Keep things cheap but effective and don't let yourself get isolated, by working together your units will make their specialities count for little. Remember that fewer and more expensive units are the ideal prey for elite armies as they can make the best of their superior equipment etc but when greatly outnumbered their strength becomes a weakness as they waste their potential against weaker units. After that it's a matter of target priority but that is always essential :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3684092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviar Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I played against an Eldar/DE alliance not long ago. If your unlucky he puts his giant on the table, it took many Lascannons/Melta to finally bring it down and a lot of casualities in the attempt. Their special weapons took the armour down from AV 14 to AV 12 on my LE Russ, very annyoing. You have been given some good advice above. I think well placed Lascannon/Auotocannon HWT is going to serve you well. I always use Scout Sentinels with a missile, suddenly appairing on my opponents side. Too bad Marbo is gone he was one of the more funnier units to play, and did well against any army( if you were lucky). If you have a Orbital bombbardment option his troops is really going to suffer, mine took out half of his skate-gliders(forgot the name). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3684288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Uri Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I'm going against DE soon and those lances and jink moves are worrying me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3684917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I'm going against DE soon and those lances and jink moves are worrying me DE have no way to strip cover unless allied with Eldar and even then it's a random chance. Camp our big guns in cover, if you have points, toss em some camo. Also present many threats at the same time. If you survive the shooting for 1-2 round the game will be yours. DE shoot like hell but break very fast if you keep your pressure up. You must force them on the defensive, if you go on the defensive, chances are they will overrun you. On a side note, I have no seen too many lances in todays DE lists, most people have those beast blobs (forgot what they are called), some vipers and some barges, so the lance thread is moderate at best. No ideas about your meta though so I reserve ultimate judgement :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3684926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 bring more armour than he can bring lances! hydras will bring back their points as well! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3684930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 bring more armour than he can bring lances! hydras will bring back their points as well! Word, that's the only time I would admit that it's a good idea to bring a Hydra. All DA vehicles are skimmers and are paper thin. The Hydra will shred them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3684934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ravel Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I love Scions deepstrike since their waveserpents doesn't have the shield on the back (and that it's almost an automatic pen right there). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3685030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Uri Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I'll take that advice. My army is small and arriving tomorrow by post. It's the box set with the 20 troop, c him, LR and CCS and I bought two boxes. Might put gatling guns on the russ and glacé the skimmers to death. As for eldar the best advice is this. It's a very specialised army. When you know what does what you know what yo get rid of. You have a mech list? Target there anti armour. I know this sounds obvious but with eldar ever unit is very good at one job only. Read the codex as that will help you see what units can do what so you can pick your fights better Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3685052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
logun Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 i play space wolves, eldar and IG. and the new IG scare my eldar, although i play Beil Tan which is more about the aspect warriors than the psychic powers. "Fire on my target" ordered heavy weapons teams are going to upset his skimmers, no cover/jink sucks for eldar. watch out for swooping hawks, they can mess up a blob with their grenade packs. most wave serpents are kitted with scatter lasers according to the internet, so can't hurt your heavy tanks. bright lances are useally carried by wraithlords, "fire on my Target", "bring it down" will help here. toughness 8 with only three wounds and a 3+ save. 1-2 wyverns = dead eldar where ever they try to hide(within range of course) their flyers are good at taking down tanks/aircraft but are paper thin. quad gun/hydra will sought that out quick. a wraith knight is pretty scary, obviouly twice as hard to take down as the wraith lord. my long fangs and thunder wolves have eaten it fairly quickly. massed ordered heavy fire is your best option i think. if it gets close tarpit it with conscripts and a preist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3685178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thanks for all the advice guys. It's really helped with what I want to do with my army. I've previously leaned toward mechanised armies but I think it'd be wiser to use infantry platoons with heavy weapons supported by a ccs and divination. Which heavy weapon would be most effective? I'm thinking about autocannons but maybe a split between autocannons and lascannons would be better. I'll write a proper list soon but I have included a wyvern battery and Leman Russ Exterminators led by Punisher Pask to roll out the firepower. If I can take out those wave serpents and his farseer (typically on a jetbike) I know I can seriously hamper his army. Also my Knight Errant running up the board should provide a good distraction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3685404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I remember only taking vehicles with AV12 or less against lance spam once, my opponent was not amused :P Autocannons are a great middling weapon, very flexible and not expensive so they're always a good idea but even more so against Eldar. The Wyvern is so effective for the points cost it's almost a case of having to justify not using them... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3685447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ravel Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Lascannon are too costy in price for what they do since they get BS3. At least with autocannon you can alot of fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3685891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 Autocannons it is then! What do you all think of the effectiveness of a hellhound squadron against Eldar? Or is this role achieved by the wyvern? I'm thinking they could keep up with the Knight and provide fire support/something else to be shot at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3689826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Hellhounds are great so they'd do well burning some Eldars for you, especially when they cower in cover like the craven xenos they are. A good Hellhound shot can make a big difference, their effectiveness is such that I prefer to run them alone as a couple in a squadron is often OTT ;) The Wyvern may compete with it somewhat in role, but for working with advancing elements and reliability the Hellhound is better. Best thing is to take both of course! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3689847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ravel Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Hellhound are not bad, but they need to be within 18'' or so of the ennemy. If so, you'll probably end up dead to Wave Serpent or War Walker shooting. Better to take the Wyvern (it cost less too) even if I never tried that one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3689951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I remember only taking vehicles with AV12 or less against lance spam once, my opponent was not amused Even better, I once fielded three venerable mortis dreadnoughts with techmarine support and hordes of bikes against lance spam...no lance penalty, and rerolls on the damage table, the vennies were better AND cheaper than land raiders would have been... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3690146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Don't write Off the lascannon just yet. With 7th edition almost out and vehicles becoming harder to kill it might just be worth it.BS 3 shouldn't be of any concern,since practically everything in our entire army is BS 3,and it's still a 50/50 chance of hitting Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3690931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 That, or accept hull point grinding as the new normal, even for lighter vehicles. I mean, even against rhinos, I get to the third hull point before I get to an "explodes" more often than not, even under the current rules. Going from a 1/6 chance to a 0/6 chance for an AP3-or-worse weapon to insta-kill a scout sentinel isn't really that breathtaking, I'm seeing this more as a nerf of AP2 and AP1 weaponry, to be honest (and I like it). In 6th, a melta has a 50% chance to get an "explodes" result, that's stupidly scary. A 1/3 chance is far more reasonable, and I think a far more significant change than losing the already miniscule chance for a heavy bolter to blow up a land speeder. And for a bright/darklance to go from a 1/3 chance to explode to a 1/6 chance is FANTASTIC for every AV14 army out there (deathwing and IG come to mind) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3691146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Agreed, though I'd say stripping hull points was pretty normal anyway. It's how the majority of vehicles are knocked out generally I find, melta aside. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3691212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raulmichile Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I would add that, as WarriorFish pointed out, don't bring AV14 unless you have 6 or more tanks in your list. If you plan to bring 2 or 3 LRBT they will be taken down pretty easily. No Eldar player worth his salt will play against Guard at leat with two or 3 lances, just in case. Same as you bringing two or three Wyverns, just in case also, hehe. Your opponent will do absolutely his best in not allowing these things to fire Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290958-tactics-against-eldar/#findComment-3694781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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