Road to Veteran's 2014

[Jolemai]

 

Some shots from the tourney:

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/2014%20Veterans/IMG_6055_zps747357e5.jpg

Guessing the guy in the Arsenal shirt struggled for fourth place..? And if you're not a football/soccer fan then that won't be funny..

 

It's when you find out the Arsenal supporter was actually leading this year's tournament, only to throw it away three fifths of the way through...

 

Morticon, when is the first tournament of the 7th edition for you?

[knife&fork]

It's when you find out the Arsenal supporter was actually leading this year's tournament, only to throw it away three fifths of the way through...

 

 

......I have no idea what this means.

[Jolemai]

 

It's when you find out the Arsenal supporter was actually leading this year's tournament, only to throw it away three fifths of the way through...

 

......I have no idea what this means.

 

It was a reply to Captain Juan Juarez's comment about Arsenal.

 

Arsenal FC play their football in the Premier League and despite being billed a title contenders, they always seem to end up getting fourth place in the league. This season, they occupied the top spot until around February (about 3/5 of the way through the season), before throwing it all away and ending up getting fourth place.

 

So yeah, I'm going to retire from this thread now.

[Morticon]

Not sure when the first 7th is! I think it may be late June?

We have a big ranked tourney coming up in July though (up in Johannesburg), and that will be last flight of the 6th!

 

 

Also, Mort the Vets thread from you is one of the few regular threads I look forward to every year still.

 

 

Really, glad to hear it, mate.  Its always a little more motivating to hear peoples feedback - even if that feedback is in the form of questions and brief commentary!!  

It makes the writing worthwhile.  

Sometimes i  think: wait..is anyone even reading these things? 

 

Thanks for the constant reminders to keep writing peoples.

 

 

As a brief overview,

 

Prize Unit of the tournament:

 

1.   The Raptor.  

 

If your group allows FW play, and you can afford it, go out an get one now.  

By far the most impressive flyer out there.

If you cant afford it- do what I did, and scratch build/modify one! 

 

2.  Mephiston.

 

He doesn't always make back his points - but what he does do is strongly influence how your opponent plays and forces him to react to Mephy's movement.

This is invaluable for me.  Meph single handedly won the first game for me, but was a little lack-luster in game 2 (on account of all his 2+).  Then in game 3, it was Meph's movement that tied up 700+ points of his army - and kept the uber-master out of the game. In game 4, i duffed if, by forgetting him for a turn, so, his only real contribution was to give the opponent another threat to consider.  In game 5 Meph helped thin out the hounds, and was countered by a DP, who was then grounded and in the open for a counter from my flyers.  

 

3. Corbulo.

 

Hero.  Freakin' hero. Most of you guys have read my thread on him.  The "far seeing eye" and his 2+ fnp are golden.  He is what won me the final game vs. the hounds of doom.  Great unit to pair with vanguard. 

 

4.  Damocles.

 

Reliable and solid for 75points.  Nothing overwhelming, but if you have LOS blocking terrain, i think the Orbital works awesomely, and if you play flyers or strikers, the +1 is invaluable.  Also, if you need your guys to stay off, the -1 is handy too.  

 

5. Vanguard

 

In a non-intercept-heavy environment, these guys are sick. Say no more.

 

6. Legion.

 

Only played them in 2 games and once they didnt feature.  The second time they did well because of their additional rule.  Cant really comment, but i think the 3++ is golden.  Also a nice combo with corbs to mitigate the scatter.

 

7.  Hyperios 

 

As discussed.  A workhorse, but not epic/stellar.  I had a board that was very favourable to FMCs and flyers, so , LoS was not good vs. them.  So, i rarely had clear shots. 

 

8,.  Attack bikes 

 

Solid.  Another workhorse.  I like using these guys and find they offer amazing tactical ops.

 

9. DC dread, I liked the fists.  The AP2 and S10 is good, good.  I found i wasnt as tactically mobile with only 1 raven though. Think i need two to work this type of thing.

 

10. DC 

 

Just a 5man axe squad, so again, nothing insane.  A decent unit, used mainly for diversion.

[Morticon]

OH!

 

Nigel (aka DirtyRat) wanted me to tell all of you that his Orks got vengeance for the "Toe incident"!!!  

He was paired up with Decoy (also on B&C) who was rocking an INSANE Inquisition list with a warhound.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Mort, looking at the final scoreboard it seems that there was an even spread between those with added extras (FW//Ally/et al.) and pure, single-Codex, lists.

 

Do you feel that those with the pure lists, who seemed to feature closer to the bottom than the top, put themselves at a disadvantage even before the games had begun? 

 

Also, it's scary to see the Sisters/SM player outscore all but two of you for the Battle category but tank - in a bad way! - on everything else including ArmyComp.

 

Finally, on the scorebaord what does the Command Counters score represent - is it the points based on what you used/didn't use? As you got 8 compared to a lot of 20s.

[Leonaides]

Mort- just a quickie... what belly guns have you gone for on that raptor and did you swap the missiles for the big blind attack one? Just trying to decide how to assemble mine and thought you'd have an informed suggestion. And congrats on the wins!

[Morticon]

Cap - will get to your questions soon!  I wrote a huuuuge response, and it got lost in the warp <_<

 

Leonaides - it depends on your local meta.  Generally speaking I say go for the HB.  Id usually never say that, but 12 HB shots (twin linked, strafing) is better than 4x S7 shots (TL, Strafing) against every Toughness based unit up to T6.  So, for FMCs, they absolutely rock

 

Remember, the new Raptor rules are in IA: 2 version 2.  The FW experimental rules no longer apply - so we lose the BA ability stuff- which i think was pants anyway.  I much, much prefer the concussive AP2 missiles. 

 

If you play in a mech heavy, and AV12 flyer heavy environment, its maybe a better deal to go with the autos- but, I found most flyers are rockin 10/11 armour, so the 12 HB shots were plenty when factoring in the other firepower, and the other raven. 

[Morticon]

Mort, looking at the final scoreboard it seems that there was an even spread between those with added extras (FW//Ally/et al.) and pure, single-Codex, lists.

Do you feel that those with the pure lists, who seemed to feature closer to the bottom than the top, put themselves at a disadvantage even before the games had begun? 

Also, it's scary to see the Sisters/SM player outscore all but two of you for the Battle category but tank - in a bad way! - on everything else including ArmyComp.

Finally, on the scorebaord what does the Command Counters score represent - is it the points based on what you used/didn't use? As you got 8 compared to a lot of 20s.

 

Hey Cap, 

 

So, I dont think the "pure" lists put themselves at a bigger disadvantage per se, but the issue is the whole notion of "perceived strength". 

 

I think the stronger players gravitate towards perceived stronger lists and list combinations and as a result when the stronger players do well it reinforces that idea. I think the more fluffy players usually wind up playing the purer lists.  

 

That sisters list was incredible.  

Its core was   the Saint, 3x 5 battle sisters (heavy flmr, melta) in Immolators (MM), 3x 5 dominions (4x Meltas) in Immolators

 

Which was a sick, sick  core.  The amount of high Str, low ap was nuts.

 

He had a Type B list, which meant a sideboard.  He always had a Raven in it, and then at least 1 void shield, in one of his lists he had an Imperial Knight and also a VSG network with 6 Shields O_O

 

 

As for command counters, everyone starts off with 12points (3 counters) - depending on how well, or how badly they do, they can get more.  

In the course of the tourney you can trade them in for special abilities rolled for on a table, or you can trade a few in to negate a counter use of your opponents.

I had won a few counters, but i had used them to ensure victory, meaning by the end, i only had 2! 

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Mort, how do you feel about this years competition as a whole? Reading back, you had some good points; one somewhat epic curb-stomp points-wise, a moment of high jinx with Meph and the enemy CM and, finally, a reaffirmation of your Corbs love-affair but is there anything that you think you let yourself down on overall? Or anything that you felt you'd missed out on including in your force that with hindsight would have proved inspired?

Also, Is the standard staying high with your local/tournament competitors and how do you feel 7th might change that? Do you see sweeping changes to future events, including the Vets?

And because that's like 8 questions in 5 lines I'll stop typing!

[Morticon]

Mort, how do you feel about this years competition as a whole? Reading back, you had some good points; one somewhat epic curb-stomp points-wise, a moment of high jinx with Meph and the enemy CM and,

finally, a reaffirmation of your Corbs love-affair but is there anything that you think you let yourself down on overall?

Or anything that you felt you'd missed out on including in your force that with hindsight would have proved inspired?

Also, Is the standard staying high with your local/tournament competitors

and how do you feel 7th might change that?

Do you see sweeping changes to future events, including the Vets?

dude, awesome questions. thanks for engaging!

1. This years competition was by far the best, and the tightest in terms of overall running and logistics. Gamer-wise, it was well attended and more importantly really, really well enjoyed. The Vets has become the most anticipated tourney this side of the pond - which is really exciting. I found that the balance of gaming 180 (+20) points counting for 2/3rds of the points, and a not-insubstantial 1/3rd in terms of painting, modelling, composition and conduct allowed for a strong, strong focus on the hobby. It was incredible to see fully painted armies (not the usual here) and strong combos, but not overly stupid/abusive combos (thanks partly to the comp system).

2. Overall, I'm quite happy with stuff from my side, hey. I would have enjoyed more players- 40k has never quite recovered from the great 5th ed loss- our 2011 National tourney pulled in 64 players, and we've never made near that again. But gaming wise, aside from some silly mistakes (mephy !! ) i was generally happy with my play. I got REALLY frustrated in the 4th game, i didnt focus on my really, really poor bouts of bad luck that were just wreaking havoc with my game. But, ya....tough to answer reflectively.

3. I was REALLY happy with my list. I think the Type B (sideboard) list allowed me the tools i needed in each situation. I think i balanced out the type of firepower decently - (eg: 3x las/plas razors helping out with my anti 2+ and then the Raptor and other units offering anti-infantry). I always tend to gravitate towards non-op (or rather non-lynchpin/trick/deathstar), scalpel type lists, that have the tools to take on anything, but can be dismantled by strong enough players with the right build- BUT the benefit of living in a small gaming community is that you are able to factor in certain players. I know generally who plays what armies, and how good they are, and as a result make sure I take stuff to beat those guys, and then hope i dont come up against a nemesis list in the hands of someone else.

Vets also requires you build to the missions. You cannot just build an army you like. You really need to see what missions you can get what points - one of the reasons I had scouts!

4. The standard is generally quite high. I find there are more very high quality gamers in the US competitive scene, where as here, the best of our best are comparable to that side, but there are far, far fewer "best of the best". This is also what i believe is partly responsible for a lot of that 5th ed drop i told you about. it was always the top core placing top 10, and the rest not really breaking through that.

5. I think 7th is going to shake things up a little, but not much. It depends how tournies are run!

6. Vets will be a nightmare next year! NO idea what to do. It will almost definitely not be "unbound" though!!! But, only time will tell ^_^

[ianj253]

Nice find on the damocles. I tried it out last night and it's a real value for 75 points. It's +/- 1 is awesome for reserve manipulation and is especially useful for me since I'm still using jumpers that I Combat squad and deep strike. Typically I like to keep them off till late game to grab objectives and this helps. 

 

I used the fire raptor too and was quite impressed. If you were only going to take one flyer would it be the storm raven or raptor? 

[Morticon]

Ianj - thats a tricky question, because I dont think id ever just take one!  I'd definitely always go two if i had a flyer in my army. 

 

Like most of these A or B type questions, the question would rely on the role I needed it for and the gaps my army fills in other places.

 

Do I have anti-infantry available? Do i have anti FMC stuff? Do I have decent mobility to get up the field?

 

I think i'm leaning towards the Raptor on account of the sheer firepower it puts out and the fact that its a dedicated gunboat.  

[Emperors Immortals]

On the Raptor, im thinking of converting my Raven into one (as I never seem to use teh transport capacity apart from dreads) but am worried about the AV12 on a gun boat, is it much of an issue if I keep it mobile do you think?

[Morticon]

The 4 HP helps! 

 

But, thats always the risk - thats why I said earlier id only ever run two - not 1.

I make the enemy make hard choices - dread/squad in face, or gunboat doing damage.

 

But, ya, I really rate it hey.  Especially if you're in a MC heavy environ.  

[Orogen]

Have you given the Sicaran tank a whirl?  I've really been debating between it and the Raptor, or both I suppose.  I like how it's costed and it throws out a fair amount of dakka too but I'm a big fan of the Raptor as well.

 

Cheers!

[DarkMark]

Very interesting thread Morty. I don't game, but its nice to see what the Jones are up to.

OT: Regarding the Arse'. Well, we have cookies and lovelies like Keeley (eyes left). For the non-footy types Arsenal basically have a new codex, read stadium, but can't afford to actually buy any new toys to play with, and therefore remain the nearly men. Hence, the nailed on 4th place every year.

[Morticon]

Have you given the Sicaran tank a whirl?  I've really been debating between it and the Raptor, or both I suppose.  I like how it's costed and it throws out a fair amount of dakka too but I'm a big fan of the Raptor as well.

 

Cheers!

 

I havent!

 

Isn't the Sicaran Legion (30k) only?? Ive seen the rules and luuurve it. 

 

edit:  Just checked.  Ya, BA heavy support.  I'm there like a bear.  Will be my next big purchase when i can afford.

[Emperors Immortals]

Um, yeah getting freaked out a little now lol.

 

My shopping list for this year is; Sicarian, Raptor, Damocles and some proper attack bikes. You guys are using 3 of those units in this thread. Win.

 

reat minds thinking alike I assume :D

[Shaezus]

This thread's definitely got me looking at the Raptor! Would take two of them for sure. Umming over whether a Sicaran Venerator is a better choice over my two vindicators though.

Morticon, have you tried the Scorpius Whirlwind? I can see it as an alternative to the raptor's ground attack in that it can hurt MEQs and vehicles, starts on the board and can sit out of LOS. Doesn't have AA capability obviously but at almost half the points of a raptor..whaddya reckon?

edit: also, the BA aren't listed in the chapters that the raptor is available to

[Morticon]

This thread's definitely got me looking at the Raptor! Would take two of them for sure. Umming over whether a Sicaran Venerator is a better choice over my two vindicators though.

Morticon, have you tried the Scorpius Whirlwind? I can see it as an alternative to the raptor's ground attack in that it can hurt MEQs and vehicles, starts on the board and can sit out of LOS. Doesn't have AA capability obviously but at almost half the points of a raptor..whaddya reckon?

edit: also, the BA aren't listed in the chapters that the raptor is available to

Shaez - its in the FW FAQ! We can get it :)

Also, the Scorpius is really nice. Hadn't noticed it before.

Thing is, its role is a little different. I love the barrage, and the S8, AP3 is sick!!

But, ya, I think the reliability of the Raptor and the ability to hit aerial targets is where the appeal is.

[ianj253]

You can't take both the Sicarian and Raptor. There can only be one! They both have the Relics of the armory special rule and the only way to bypass that is pay a crappy reclusiarch tax : (. 

 

The Sicarian is great. It's an awesome wave serpent/flyer killer since it ignores jink saves.

 

For the damocles you could always use the stalker without its gun. It's got a satellite dish on top so it looks pretty similar. 

[Emperors Immortals]

I've just seen the reclusiarch special rule because I'm writing up a thread on this book and the BA. Luckily I pretty much always have one anyway because fluff.

 

 

I've wanted a Damocles model since I first saw it, the rules are actually just a bonus for me lol, though the stalker is a nice idea, lus "Bitz for the Bitz Box! "

 

The only other guy near me who still plays 40k has just started a Ravenwing army, and I'm eyeing up the sicsarian for that role.

 

I'm also thinking of dropping one Baal and one normal pred for a godhammer raider, but have you guys seen the Spartan assault tank? Pricy, but very tasty!

[knife&fork]

How would you rate the Hyperios compared to the vengeance batteries with quad icarus?

[Morticon]

I LOVE the vengeance batteries- and have 2 quad icarus vengeance, myself.  The issue with them, is that if you're playing in a VSG heavy environment, the " shoot last" rule is of great hindrance. The only reason I went for the hyperios is because A. they can score, B. they can shoot at whichever targets they want. 
now, with skyfire being what it is .....i think the vengeance batteries will be better.