New SW Codex Confirmation?

[CatSmasher]

I would like to see a flier for the SW, the codex even mentions thunderhawks.

 

I am really hoping they dont nerf the GH or Rune Priest, and I am hoping for some price modification to make thunderwolves a bit cheaper. They are our only decent 5 toughness units.

 

I am in the opposite camp about thunderwolves. I love them fluff wise. A motor cycle doesn't make sense for space wolves.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I too would love to see new character models, but seeing as GW has not redone any from the other armies recently, I am not counting on it.

I love the TWC models, always have.

The power armor kits is just fine.

We NEED a TDA Lord/RP/WP kit, or something like that however. Hell a power armored kit would be ok, but not ideal (for me at least...)

 

End of Line

[Leif Bearclaw]

I would like to see a flier for the SW, the codex even mentions thunderhawks.

I am really hoping they dont nerf the GH or Rune Priest, and I am hoping for some price modification to make thunderwolves a bit cheaper. They are our only decent 5 toughness units.

I am in the opposite camp about thunderwolves. I love them fluff wise. A motor cycle doesn't make sense for space wolves.

The flier's almost certain imo, they're giving all the books a couple it seems, I'd be more worried about it being a good model than us not getting one.

I starting to think the changes to 7th will nerf the Rune Priest, so the dex won't have to (it seems that powers may become less reliable to manifest, and everyone's psychic defences are improving, making the Rune Weapon less useful). Hunters, who knows? While I doubt they'll lose gear, I'm worried they'll increase in points, which would be irritating, especially as the Carcharodons only have to pay 1 point for ultra grit. With a tac marine now at 14, I think 15 for a Hunter is fair.

I have to ask, what doesn't make sense about a bike for Space Wolves?

As for the Thunderwolves, they simply don't make much sense, even by the standards of the setting. They are described as solitary animals that usually attack each other on sight in the current dex, this isn't much like regular Wolves. They're described as each wolf striving to be the alpha of the entire planet. How is a marine supposed to 'break in' such a creature? Even if you could stop it attacking constantly, that doesn't seem like the temperament of a riding beast. How and why do they accept the Marine as their master when they don't have a pack structure for the marine to insert himself into, like with a normal lone hunt. Even if he does, you then have the problem of the entire pack's mounts wanting to fight both their riders, and each other. pretty much all the time (no packs for the Thunderwolves remember). Then you have the whole 'how can their back support the weight of the saddle, plus the weight of the rider' question. Not to mention the bizarre secrecy around them. Really? In 10,000 years of deploying with other Imperial forces, nobody noticed the Wolf Cavalry Elite? Pull the other one.

Whereas if Thunderwolves are 'merely' bigger, deadlier version of the normal Fenrisian Wolf, then they make a lot more sense. They exist in packs, so a particularly badass Marine can Lone Hunt Thunderwolves instead of regular Fenrisian Wolves. If he wins, he becomes Alpha, and his new pack follow him, just like with their smaller cousins. Due to their size, the marine uses a bike or similar vehicle to keep up with his pack on the battlefield. You don't break the Thunderwolves' backs with riders, and as it's no secret that the Space Wolves take actual wolves to war, there's no weird secrecy around them, they're just the biggest and nastiest of the bunch.

OK, didn't mean for that to turn into that much of a rant, oh well .

Edited for spelling.

[Fytharin]

I've dealt with this TWC issue over and over again. And it's relally no different than horses because even horses, a non-predatory, social, pack (herd) orientated animal strives for dominance and upward movement in the herd. There are horses that will never fully be broken and will constantly press on the boundary lines to make sure they’re still there. Thunder wolves in my mind would be no different, broken but constantly seeking to test your dominance at every turn therefore it takes a strong hand to command them and a wolf-sense.

 

There are two ways to break a horse, one is by crushing their spirit and a lot of the old ranchers do it this way to this day where the feet are tied up and the horse sometimes literally beaten into submission. This doesn’t and would not work with predators therefore a more tactical approach is needed. A lot of people in the 90’s heard about the horse whisper who basically could speak with the same body language horses use to communicate. Wolves do much the same thing communicating with their posture, raised head and broad shoulders to intimidate or slouched shoulders, lowered head, no eye contact to display submission. Wolves will fight often to gain dominance over one another, after that is maintaining that position through feeding hierarchy, body language and overall attitude. Making sure their lower place is not forgotten. In my mind it would be no different for a TWC rider and therefore I have no problem with the lore or the models that with our wolfy demeanor and genetics we would have some instinctual way of communicating some form of dominance over these wolves enough to form some sort of pack bond mentality.

 

[Leif Bearclaw]

Except that (I was a little surprised at this tbh) Thunderwolves are not pack/social animals. They seem to behave more saltwater crocodiles, or a more territorial bear. So forming a pack with an Astartes would be an artificial construct instead of exploiting their natural behaviour, like it is for Fenrisian wolves. While I can believe this is possible, it would require some form of domestication and/or breeding program, not taking healthy, aggressive adult specimens from the wild, like the marines apparently do.

 

Plus there's the whole weight issue, it took centuries of breeding to get a horse with a strong enough back to support a human rider, and the stamina to carry one for extended periods. I am skeptical that a Thunderwolf has the back strength to stand up however much an armoured marine weighs (I've seen at least a tonne bandied about), plus wargear, and the weight of the saddle/harness. And then, even if it can stand up, does it have the endurance to carry a rider for the extended periods required for a combat mount? There's no reason for it to have such traits in its natural environment, so it's unlikely that it would be able to pull that off.

 

Then there's the nonsensical secrecy...

[montegue]

I'll never understand the TWC hate. Those models are the reason I started my Space Wolves army and 40k in general. They are amazing models, so much fun to paint, badass on the field, and look great. Love them. 

 

[Sohail187]

To be fair, I'd quite like to see them overhaul TWC completely. Marines riding wolves, it's a damn silly idea. I'd much prefer something akin to DE beastmasters, with the Marine packmaster on a big meaty quad bike, followed by his pack of giant wolves (which is also how I'm planning on modelling my TWC when I get round to it).

 

I hope we don't get a new pack box, I don't want the bolter handle and hands to be one piece, like in the new tac squad. To be honest, apart from new things, flyer, that relic tank that was rumoured a while back, we don't really need most of our range replaced. That said, a Wolf Priest model would be nice (no, GW we need one that isn't Ulrik).

 

Also, please let us get a unique dreadnought, it sucks we're the only loyalist codex without one (DAs get Mortis, thanks to FW).

Very good call on the space wolves vehicles upgrade kit. Didnt think of this!! would be a very handy kit indeed!

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

To be fair, I'd quite like to see them overhaul TWC completely. Marines riding wolves, it's a damn silly idea. I'd much prefer something akin to DE beastmasters, with the Marine packmaster on a big meaty quad bike, followed by his pack of giant wolves (which is also how I'm planning on modelling my TWC when I get round to it).

 

I hope we don't get a new pack box, I don't want the bolter handle and hands to be one piece, like in the new tac squad. To be honest, apart from new things, flyer, that relic tank that was rumoured a while back, we don't really need most of our range replaced. That said, a Wolf Priest model would be nice (no, GW we need one that isn't Ulrik).

 

Also, please let us get a unique dreadnought, it sucks we're the only loyalist codex without one (DAs get Mortis, thanks to FW).

Very good call on the space wolves vehicles upgrade kit. Didnt think of this!! would be a very handy kit indeed!

.

Did you mean to quote Valerian? Cos that was his idea (damn good one too)

[mactire]

"There are no wolves on Fenris". I like this bit of fluff and take it to mean that the effect of the canis helix on human dna has sometimes resulted in the transformation to wolves from human. When astartes dna is added to the mix it has become the mark of the wulfen and denegration to wolf/thunder wolf status. Magnus hinted at this in ATS when saying that the first settlers tampered with their dna in order to survive on the death world of Fenris. I also believe this has something to do with the inability to create SW's from non Fenrisian humans, there would seem to be a link between the altered dna of the now local population, Russ's geneseed and the canis helix. If I then follow this fluff we are riding around on our mutated brothers backs and if I wanted that kind of army I would collect Emperor's Children.

 

This is just my take on our setting and my own reasons for not liking TWC, the models themselves are class and they seem to very game effective but they are just not for me.

[Leif Bearclaw]

I'll never understand the TWC hate. Those models are the reason I started my Space Wolves army and 40k in general. They are amazing models, so much fun to paint, badass on the field, and look great. Love them. 

 

 

Well aside from the breakdown of their fluff I've done in this thread, it comes down to their aesthetic. I think Marines riding giant wolves is silly. It's more fantasy than Science Fiction, and while 40k has is a mix of the two, it's still primarily a Sci Fi setting, for me the TWC are taking it a bit too far. Finally there's the wolf overload. This codex took the Wolf flavour a bit too far, an TWC are a symptom of that. It's always been there, but more as a 'Space Vikings with a Wolf theme', rather than the overdose of wolves and 'Wolf-things' we got (see Canis for the prime offender), like BAs and teir 'Blood-everything'.

 

To bring this back on topic a little. It'd be nice if the new takes reigns in some of the Wolfiness, in favour of a bit more Viking.

[Rift Blade]

Gotta agree on the Dreadnaught as well as the Rune Priest in Termie Armour. I kinda  like the old one except for its size but in no way opposed to a new one as long as they take their time. I think may be part of our problem is that we really are spoiled for the sheer quality of our current model range in comparison to the other Space Marines. Yes, our HQ's could do with some refreshing but that's about it. Really curious to see what kind of flyer we'll get. It's not a matter of if I think. More of what? I say that 'cause in the flyer supplement, there are rules for Wolf pilots. And Valerian, really hope your idea on the SW vehicile upgrade sprue comes true. THat's spot on IMO.

[Fytharin]

If I’m not mistaken there are animals with natural reoccurring carbon fiber in their bone structure so stretching into an animal that could carry a space marine in a fantasy-space world isn’t all of that far fetched quite frankly. Crocodiles live in loose social groups dominated by a male so bad example. Horses could always bear the weight of man, it’s war horses that needed fine tuning for knights in their hundred pound armor. Further more canines spinal column operate completely different from horses as most predators do due to the difference in gait and allow for more flexibility and reach with each stride so a saddle would have to be placed further up towards the shoulder. (Thank you lord of the rings bonus features)

 

I agree with the above, wolves are what drew me into the army to begin with and the Viking esque history is what cemented me into it. They’re called space wolves, not space Vikings. I can understand your distaste if you are more favorable towards the Viking side of things but they are called Space Wolves for a reason so trying completely bash a model that is in their name sake for not keeping with the lore seems silly to me. We all have our tastes, getting back on topic however I would be very sad to see any of the wolf models go because I do enjoy them and I do enjoy painting them/fielding them.

TWC I’m hoping do not get a nerf in any way because anything else would render them too costly to field. I’ve also seen the rumors/confirmations of a wolf flier landing in warehouses and I hope it’s true. One thing that bugs me about our current tanks/transports is how un-SW they are so a SW flier gets me excited and I will probably buy it even if it isn’t very combat effective. The competitive side of me hopes dearly it is because the last thing we need is another mech unit that’s about as par/sub-par as the rest. =/

Also please send us new MotW models…it’s all I want for Christmas…it seems silly that we don’t anymore.

 

[Leif Bearclaw]

Isn't that natural carbon fiber thing pure fiction from Avatar? I've never encountered in in real life and a quick google only found me Avatar talk.

Saltwater Crocodiles are noted as being especially territorial, unlike other crocodiles, with males not tolerating each other's presence, so I'll hold that the example was valid. And I still hold that there are problems with a wild creature's back (or shoulders) supporting the weight of an armoured Astartes and all his wargear, as that's a weight way beyond what they would likely encounter in their wild lives.

So you're saying that the TWC models have their saddles in the wrong place then. Cos looking at the them, those saddles are nowhere near the shoulders and look like a short cut to a snapped snipe to me .

I didn't set out to bash TWC quite as much as I did, but re-reading their entry in the codex just piled on the annoyances (if they don't even live in packs, are they really wolves?). The principal beef was originally with the 'cavalry' half, as I said to montegue, it's a bit too much Fantasy in my 40k for my blood, but then I got to over-thinking things...

I don't want Thunderwolves removed, but as I said in the my first post, an arrangement more like DE beast packs would remove the majority of my issues, plus be a lot more 'wolfy' imo anyway.

I honestly doubt they'll change TWC too much, drastic changes haven't been the norm of late. A bigger worry would be 7th doing something to nerf all cavalry, rather than TWC themselves taking a hit.

[CatSmasher]

I didn't mean to escalate an argument, and I think the opposite points made are valid. It seems clear that physics and ergonomics are not high on the priority list in the grimdark future

[KiltedMarine]

Not going to get involved in the TWC controversy; I don't use 'em, but I don't suffer the Warp Spasm at hearing them mentioned, either.

 

I will say, I think the point that came up about hoping for a later release after the new edition was valid. Also, personally I'm disappointed to hear we're getting a flyer. I don't think Astartes should be attack pilots outside of flying Thunderhawks or Cestus Assault Craft. The Astartes are the heaviest of heavy infantry, and any air support should come in the form of craft flown by serfs or Fleet pilots. But that's my obsessive fluff-fascist tendencies talking.

 

That said, I've been growling into my mjod since the start of 6th that we can't buy flakk missiles for LFs or dreadnoughts. Unless we run with allies, we're seriously outgunned the moment anybody brings a flyer.

 

So here's hoping we get something to solve that issue, preferably without being too cartoony or in violation of previous fluff.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Whatever happens, I pray Grey Hunters stay the same. Everything else that gets nerfed/buffed can be handled so long as our mainstay troops stay strong and firm.

[skeletoro]

 

 

I'll never understand the TWC hate. Those models are the reason I started my Space Wolves army and 40k in general. They are amazing models, so much fun to paint, badass on the field, and look great. Love them.

Well aside from the breakdown of their fluff I've done in this thread, it comes down to their aesthetic. I think Marines riding giant wolves is silly.

 

 

that is what is so awesome about them.

[logun]

just wanted to add that the thunder wolves are described as being 8ft tall at the shoulder and have more in common with a terran rhinoceroid( rhinocerous?) than a common canine. they also hunt primarily GIANT bears, ice trolls, and mastodons. so i can believe that they are capable of bearing the weight of a space wolf. maybe the problem is that the model is to small. i understand the point about "breaking" them in however being a little bit out there, but this is a make believe setting so maybe we just need to use a little bit of our imagination ;). 

 

anyway i am hoping for some new SC models, relic tanks sounds cool if true(i'm looking ate you LR Exterminator, but wolfified). just need flak missiles, so won't ruin my day if flyer never happens. Wulfen would be awesome, the ebay ones are a little dare for my pocket right now.

[skeletoro]

so leaked pic of the next white dwarf says that wounds characters cause in assaults carry over to the unit. This is pretty good news for SotWB. Bear might still be a better choice (just so hard to go without it!!) but warrior born looks more attractive than it did.

[skeletoro]

if we get lucky and get ap2 at initiative in the new codex (e.g. If frost weapons get changed to this), warrior born will actually be a pretty enticing choice i think!!

[Fytharin]

Frost weapons are so underused and yet such a cool idea I would love to see them return. Granted we would all have to redo our model gear layouts but maybe we'll have new models to buy by then. ;)

[skeletoro]

Agreed. I wish I didn't have to choose between coolness and actual in-game effectiveness like I do with frost weapons.

[Sohail187]

Op

 

 

 

To be fair, I'd quite like to see them overhaul TWC completely. Marines riding wolves, it's a damn silly idea. I'd much prefer something akin to DE beastmasters, with the Marine packmaster on a big meaty quad bike, followed by his pack of giant wolves (which is also how I'm planning on modelling my TWC when I get round to it).

 

I hope we don't get a new pack box, I don't want the bolter handle and hands to be one piece, like in the new tac squad. To be honest, apart from new things, flyer, that relic tank that was rumoured a while back, we don't really need most of our range replaced. That said, a Wolf Priest model would be nice (no, GW we need one that isn't Ulrik).

 

Also, please let us get a unique dreadnought, it sucks we're the only loyalist codex without one (DAs get Mortis, thanks to FW).

Very good call on the space wolves vehicles upgrade kit. Didnt think of this!! would be a very handy kit indeed!

.

Did you mean to quote Valerian? Cos that was his idea (damn good one too)

Opse!!! YES I DID :D HEHEHEH

[Marshall Bretton]

tbh I regularly play wolves at the moment and the only thing I really struggle with is fliers, other than that our codex really doesn't need an update at the moment. And tbh if I could be bothered to pay the points/money I could easily get around the flier issues

 

What I would really like would be a multi option dreadnought box that allowed us to build a dread, venerable dread (or maybe a wolf specific variant) or Bjorn. They seem to be going that way in terms of models like that, such as the new wood elf tree man that can make 3 different things including a character.

 

And yeah a character update to allow us to build rune priests and wolf priests would be great as well

[d@n]

We'll the trend has been, a flier, a tank or monsterous creature or both, a plastic version of a old kit or a brand new kit or both and some fine casts or mor recently plastic clam pack hq. I'm guessing we we will probably get our own flier and our own tank maybe our own dreadnought as we don't have that and it will mean no more fine cast bjorn or and maybe a new unit most likely wulfen to cash in on a 13th company supplement /data slate. A few generic clam packs most likely a wulf/ rune priest model that looks suspiciously like Njal and ulrik one that looks like Lucas Ragnar and one that looks like logan arjac rather then making named characters there own models