New SW Codex Confirmation?

[Nrthstar]

Somehow we're focusing in on the wrong thing here. Sure the gun is fine, but we're not here to talk about what we have to take now to avoid an auto loss. We all know these fun facts, even the pups just starting. We're talking about what we'd like/need in the context of new editions and new adversaries. The quad gun was put in as a stop gap, and as such gets a thumbs down from me. I like having options. Wolfy options. We are a unique chapter after all.

[d@n]

Somehow we're focusing in on the wrong thing here. Sure the gun is fine, but we're not here to talk about what we have to take now to avoid an auto loss. We all know these fun facts, even the pups just starting. We're talking about what we'd like/need in the context of new editions and new adversaries. The quad gun was put in as a stop gap, and as such gets a thumbs down from me. I like having options. Wolfy options. We are a unique chapter after all.

that's a good point. But rather then new stuff I would much prefer stuff like dread noughts and predators to get special rules, unique to the sons of russ, to reflect our preference for older tech. Rather then all the flashy new toys like storm ravens and centurions, for example. Fluff wise the laser pred is a space wolves invention and the fen dread, was originally, unique to the wolves.

[Nrthstar]

That's what I'm hoping for is some new rules to bring us up to snuff with the current sm but with unique sw fluffiness. That and Bjorn to have a decent BS.

[Valerian]

Bjorn's BS is currently 6; you don't consider that to be decent?

 

V

[Rift Blade]

It's probably just as well work is hell right now.I'll just read these posts to keep vaguely informed, buy the new rules in a couple of months, sit down one night to read them & go @#$%##@$%^!!!! LOL!!! Personally, I don't feel they have to do much for us to bring us to date. Just tweak a few things & give us access to a new toy or two. Be nice to use my Russ again. Not trying to jinx things but I'll be amazed if we don't get access to a flyer. And lastly, maybe give Bjorn access to a long barreled Kheres Assault Cannon. Make use of that not decent BS 6 the nest time I play one of the 3 Dress wearers here & do the Challenge thing. LOL!!!

[skeletoro]

I'd love to see us get land speeder storms.

[Nrthstar]

Bjorn's BS is currently 6; you don't consider that to be decent?

 

V

Tapped that out at work on my mobile, I meant initiative :P

[Reede]

I think one thing that is cool, that given the new Psychic Phase rumors that other Psykers can deny blessing and such, it might just be possible the Rune Priest will keep his Runic Weapon Deny. Probably get dropped to 12", but hey, you never know, GW is wonky as all Hel with it's balancing.

[Valerian]

 

 

Bjorn's BS is currently 6; you don't consider that to be decent?

 

V

Tapped that out at work on my mobile, I meant initiative :P

Ah, that actually makes sense then.

[Rift Blade]

Yes. Gotta agree. His Init should be a little higher IMO. 

[skeletoro]

 

 

 

 

Oh and flakk missiles, why GW just couldn't FAQ us some ALLFATHER DAMNIT FLAKK MISSILES haha

Flakk missiles... aren't what we need. They've overpriced, and the last place you want them is on long fangs (which are already flier bait as is). They're... passable in Codex chapters who can hide 6 of them each in their own tactical squad, but for long fangs, you need way to spread out your flier defense (or give it interceptor) in order for it to do anything.

 

 

To be honest, if the BS -2 snap fire thing is true, anything twin-linked (including prescience if it stays the same) will be good enough to act as anti-air in a pinch. Twin-linked will almost make up for snap fire completely (5/9 chance to hit vs base chance of 6/9). This also has the advantage of spreading out anti-air, which is good, as you say. And twin-linked is useful when NOT shooting fliers, while, if the rumours are true, snap fire is a liability when shooting ground targets.

 

I think TLLC or TLAC razorbacks will be very good next edition - especially with the changes to the vehicle damage chart (need 7+ to explode). Hell, if you're moving cruising speed you're snap firing anyway!

 

 

To elaborate further...

 

Rapier weapons batteries were already a stand-out heavy support option. For the points, they were simply better than long fangs at destroying vehicles. The only downside, really, was even less mobility, and somewhat shorter (but still manageable) range.

 

If the BS -2 and +1 damage chart rumours are now both fact (the latter has been confirmed but I'm not sure if the former is known yet) then rapier laser destroyer batteries become even better, when compared to long fangs.

 

What are they, just over the price of two long fangs with missile launchers?

 

If we got flakk for +10 points, you could get 5 flakk long fangs (plus squad leader) for the price of... 3 and a half rapier platforms. That's not a good deal.

 

Against, for instance, a storm raven:

 

Flakk: 2/3 * 5 = 10/3 hits

Rapier: 5/9 * 3 (give flak the advantage, eh?) = 5/3 hits.

 

So the flakk team gets two hits per rapier hit. HOWEVER...

 

Flakk: 1/6 *2 hits = 1/3 glances and 1/3 pens (no chance of explodes)

Rapier: with ordnance rerolls, 5/36 glances and 3/4 pens (with a 1/6 chance of explodes for each pen)

 

And that's for quite a few less points.

 

I totally plan to magnetize any future long fang squads I build to make them able to pilot rapier weapons platforms. Awesomely, it's 6 brothers per squad either way, so magnetising at the feet and the arms could actually work quite well potentially!!

 

It's just a shame that rapier laser destroyers are only ap 2, not ap 1 in 40k. Weird that the rules for them are different in Horus heresy!!

[Sohail187]

I would love to see gh return to some of there older glory. Fairly disappointed with GH at the moment, they just don't cut it.

[MaveriK]

 

I would love to see gh return to some of there older glory. Fairly disappointed with GH at the moment, they just don't cut it.

Mmm curious... care to elaborate?

[tjdudey]

I would love to see gh return to some of there older glory. Fairly disappointed with GH at the moment, they just don't cut it.

Personally I really rate the GH.

 

I have had a lot of success with them recently. properly equipped with the most useful special weapons they can be devastating. Take advantage of the rapid fire, and wait for them to be charged, using rapid fire overwatch and counter-attack to wreak havoc upon all who dare come up against you.

[Sohail187]

 

 

I would love to see gh return to some of there older glory. Fairly disappointed with GH at the moment, they just don't cut it.

Mmm curious... care to elaborate?

First of all before i say my next line, and have the entire SW forum try to look me up and hunt me down!! I love my GH and use them every game (mainly cause i dont have another option for scoring) Grey Hunters as the game is atm just do not CUT it. Yes if you upgrade them for a CC weapon / MOTW WS 10 man squad.... WAY to expensive. Thats not even the worst part.... most of the things you face today (im not moaning about big toys new codexs ect..ect.. but in general the standard army lists you face from each race GH do nothing.

 

For me it has got to the point  where i just take 2/3 minimal 5 man unit stick in a razorback and just keep them alive so they can score later. Hopefully with the new dex we can see a point reduction and may be a few more weapon options. Few weeks ago me and my buddy played a regular and we decided to  to swap armies. So he played my space wolves and i played his white scars bike army. Now he loves his kitted out GH in pods and i had a few bike squads here and there. I knew he would be podding down some Gh to focus my bike units which were further away from the rest of my army, however I was so confident that the GH would do nothing, that i moved those units away any way. 10 GH pop out, 16 bolters shots 4 plasma shots later 0 dead bikes. Its not even down to bad or lucky dice rolls, just they dont have that PUNCH!.

 

Then in the following turn.... my 4 bikes killed 5-6 guys.

[Vor]

10 man, barebones apart from twin melta, drop podding Grey Hunters are the bane of my friends. I love them. For 190 points, you can't go wrong. Always run at least 6 squads.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I agree with vor, though I spring for the standard as well. I love those units. Never had an issue and they have made a mess outta lots of different lists.

[Rift Blade]

Sorry to hear your lack of success with GH Sohail. I run mine in large packs loaded usually with a WGPL. At the very least, I find my opponents focus extra attention on them. Even other Marines are wary of them. I guess the key is just to find what works for you.

[Fytharin]

Dudey I don't know if having the overwatch chance is worth waiting to charge. Yes we have counter attack but with overwatch being so  underpowered it's usually worth it to deny your opponent the extra charge attack and charge yourself. Unless you're tau that is....

[Nrthstar]

Sounds like the Snapshot hasn't changed, so we're still with the Quad gun for anti air.  6 months and counting :P

 

As for the grey hunter discussion, I am... underwhelmed by almost all of our units now, but that's just codex creep for you.  I was supposed to have a game yesterday (opponent couldn't make it) against Orks, oldest codex vs oldest codex to say goodbye to 6th, and I was really looking forward to it after all the punishment I've taken lately from a top notch Eldar list and a semi decent Tau list.  I know many people still have some success, but take into account your opponents, not all games are equal.

 

But back to GH.  They're a troop choice, and I know unlike my Necron Warriors, they are also meant to be a fairly reliable unit, but they aren't an elite take all opponents unit.  We need to treat them a little more preciously till our book comes (and hopefully with some points control/new toy) and hide them a bit.

 

As for Thunderwolves, who I actually love, they need some serious adjustments.  On a micro scale, meaning just unit vs unit, it makes me sad that they are so expensive compared to my outstanding Canoptek Wraith + Destroyer Lord doom squad.  Sure the TW have a T5 meaning they won't be insta gibbed as much, but they still can, and we're paying out top dollar for a 3+ invuln while the Wraith comes out far cheaper and has the 3+ included.  

 

On a Macro scale of codex vs codex, this was meant to be a wide shot balance.  Necrons aren't supposed to be great in CC (but my Lord or Overlord with a Warscythe and MSS says otherwise) so the Wraiths were made cheaper and better than others to balance the book vs our TW.

 

Now some I know will have their nickers a bit in a twist, I've noticed since I've come back that some folks don't want to accept that we've lost a step or two.  That's fine, that's the spirit of the fang!  But in my reality/local meta, we're struggling.  Last two tourneys Wolves came in dead last in my area, and one of them from a top notch player who loves the fang so much he was ready to take the loss, just to represent.

[Inquisitor Kravin]

I went to Warhammer World last weekend and the Blood Angels, Orks and Space Wolves armies were missing from the display cabinets. In the past this has been a sign that an army is being updated to fit with a new codex and since we know Bood Angels and Orks are getting new codexes it's circumstantial evidence for a new Wolves codex.

[Sohail187]

I went to Warhammer World last weekend and the Blood Angels, Orks and Space Wolves armies were missing from the display cabinets. In the past this has been a sign that an army is being updated to fit with a new codex and since we know Bood Angels and Orks are getting new codexes it's circumstantial evidence for a new Wolves codex.

I was also at whw last weekend. I remember hearing someone talking about specific armies missing from the cabinets. HINT HINT HINT!

[Squark]

Grey Hunters aren't the issue so much as the current edition is unfriendly to any marine on foot.

 

Grey Hunters are 15 points. Tactical Marines are 14 points, but lack the close combat weapon. Chaos Space Marines are 13 points, and lack the close combat weapon (unless they jump up to our price), and any free special rules beyond being forced to accept challenges. And with wargear discounts, even if you feel the close combat weapon is "wasted" due to the poor state of assault, you're still coming out at parity if not better in most cases.

 

The real issue is that the metagame favors mobility, and compared to outflanking kroot, anything on a bike, or Jump-shot-jump crisis suits from Farsight Enclaves, all we've got are drop pods.

 

Well, that's not entirely true. A lot of those troops are packing more killing power (sniper rounds, more special weapons, or bladestorm), but this may just be an issue with marines in general.