Help me understand Support Squads

[Tiger9gamer]

So I'm stuck on trying to figure out what would be the best way to make a tactical Support Squad. Originally, I was going to have a squad of 10 plasma guns and a librarian, but with the changes of 7th and the cost of the squad for the low model count, I have my doubts. I am at a bit of an impass with it, seeing as they have other options and are a scoring unit ta boot. This is geared towards RG as i have been OCD'ing about for a bit, so they will infiltrate and then attack. 

 

Now I'm asking; whats your experiences with them? are plasma guns incredibly good? are Chargers better? Should they have Centurion Support or left on their own? so many questions but I have no experience. Help would very much be appreciated!

[Moonstalker]

IMO their best use is with volkite calivers.  They're cheap, long ranged, and high strength.

 

Flamers: Too short ranged

Rotor Cannons: Strength too low

Volkite Chargers: Short ranged, same price as Calivers but worse

Melta: Short ranged, expensive, questionable utility due to availability of armored ceramite

Plasma: Expensive

 

With the calivers, you can use them like a heavy support squad with culverins.  There are some tradeoffs.  The tactical support squad has shorter range, but point for point is more resilient while having fewer shots on a point for point basis.

 

If you could always get prescience and forewarning with your librarian 100% of the time (and those powers didn't look likely to get nerfed in 7th ed...), then adding a librarian would be good.  Help protect your investment while getting more out of it.  As things go?  Eeeh.  An apothecary, sure, master of signal, sure, librarian, maybe not so much.

[Tiger9gamer]

I do have an apothecary, and for sure will wait for 7th before making a purchase. With Calviers, the range is mitigated by infiltrate quite a bit. A camping troop choice would be welcome too!

 

The other problem I'm having is that I could replace them with say, a Recon squad or something with sniper rifles and maybe get the same thing. I have no experience, however, So I wouldn't know. I'm just a little weary of an MC is all.

[Tiger9gamer]

So basically my idea is either a squad of tactical support, or recon, or maybe even Seekers? I still don't know.

[Pyromancer]

I like Calivers. On the few times I've tried then they work quite well, plus they look completely bad-ass!

[SteelPaladin]

I run with the calivers purely because they look awesome. Also, I try to use as much 30k only stuff as I can, just to differentiate it from my 40k armies.

[zedmeister]

Plasma gun support squads are like expensive glass cannons. They'll murderise everything they shoot at, but they'll have every gun on the field trained onto them. They'll probably kill their points worth, but won't last long...

 

Volkite Chargers are worth a look. Yes, they're half the range of the calivers, but they're assault weapons instead. Good if you want your support squads to keep up with everyone else.

[Moonstalker]

I don't agree zedmeister.  They're give up more than just half the range of the calivers - they also lose strength.  Between the two, the range is the more important, but it's a double hit to effectiveness while still costing as much.  If anything, those chargers should be a free swap for the flamers.  I also disagree with the general usage of the chargers on the support squad.  This is fundamentally an anti-infantry squad, and the most common infantry you'll be dealing with is tacticals.  To use the chargers against them, you're going to have to walk into bolter range before you can get a shot off with the chargers, and the tacticals have numbers and price per model going for them, and the small strength bonus of the charger doesn't make up for the support marines essentially costing twice as much.  On top of which, the advantage of the calivers is that you can use the support squad as a backfield scoring unit.  Walking up the field to use them as anti-infantry is basically pointless, since tactical marines are better at that anyway.

[Max Power]

I look of support squads as sort of a plug in for where my army is lacking. I have a lack of serious anti-tank in my list, so a support squad with meltas takes care of that nicely. If you have a serious problem killing bricks of elite infantry, the plasmas will fill that role. They seem to be similar to eldar aspect warriors in the sense that both you and your opponent know exactly what the unit is looking to do from the start of the game, and your challenge is to get them to complete their mission.

[depthcharge12]

I just take a squad of calivers and a master of signal and park their butts on an objective while my army assaults forward.

[OwlandMoonGuy]

Personally I don't like looking at a unit in isolation without considering it's role in the army.  For support squads w/claviers, they are a great backfield defensive unit.  I've had my squads of 7 mess up terminators who just couldn't keep up with the raw number of saves they had to make and keep making.  They are also good at clearing advancing infantry if they are backed up by bigger guns to open up transports.  For example, if you have heavy support with las, rapiers w/laser destroyers or some other can opener gun caddy - they shoot first, pop the transports and get the occupants out in the open.  Then follow-up with a hail of volkite to mop up the units in the open.  Very tidy tactic that can break an enemy advance.

 

But support squads with volkites are also very static unless you want to be shooting snapshots the whole game.  Given the size of the squad you quickly find that the numbers can quickly tip in favor of heavy support squads with culverin's (which is double the shots per model at longer range).  I've run support with claviers but ultimately replaced them with Myrmidon Destructors.

 

My flamer support squads reap a greater harvest because I solved their basic issue with mobility.  If you run with drop pods or are cool enough to play Iron Hands and can put them in an outflanking rhino they can get right up close.  That squad has rolled flanks all on it's own.  When you get into your enemy's lines they naturally want to assault the squad and forget that their overwatch = D3 auto hits per model.  Who wants to roll an average of 20 saves before the first initiative step?

 

I won't comment about plasma & melta.  I think their roles are self explanatory and are great at what they do if you've got the points.  With the sink required you need to build a really effective tactic around how you use them.  (I'd still love to see a melta support squad take down a knight in one turn of shooting but that's me.)

 

So what's the role you need?  Bolster your gun line while holding back table objectives?  Bolster an attack group to make your down table game more effective?  Consider some of these basic questions and I think the choice will be clear.

 

Cheers, -OMG

[BassWave]

Range on v-chargers doesn't matter if you run a mechanized or orbital assault list. Personally chargers seem like the most attractive of the options. If I remember correctly, they're cheaper than plasma, with more maneuverability than calivers, and better strength than flamers.

 

 

Btw, if I had the ability to infiltrate volkite calivers, I'd be all over that like white on rice.

[Hyaenidae]

I've been a bit curious about the Rotor cannon myself. I know it's a touch expensive, but a wall of 60 shots hitting an opposing squad sounds absolutely vicious.

[Anvilarium]

Not sure if Rotor Cannons are really worth it - at Str 3 you're looking at 5+'s to wound standard Marines. Even with 60 shots you're looking at a hell of a lot of failed wounds.

[Kilofix]

I like using an all (Chem) Flamer Support Squad for objective defense. Hide them behind something BLOS. But then I also play Death Guard. I suppose they would also be better with Salamanders.

[Reyner]

I'll be looking at a Support Squad soon - a flamer team would be quite fun, fire is a good way to clear a trench :D

[zedmeister]

Range on v-chargers doesn't matter if you run a mechanized or orbital assault list. Personally chargers seem like the most attractive of the options. If I remember correctly, they're cheaper than plasma, with more maneuverability than calivers, and better strength than flamers.

 

 

Btw, if I had the ability to infiltrate volkite calivers, I'd be all over that like white on rice.

 

Volkite Chargers are also useful for those Zone Mortalis games where range isn't as important as maneuverability.

 

It'll be a while before I get round to picking up my Support Squad. It'll be a toss up between the Volkite Chargers, Calivers or Plasma Guns. Really like the plasma gun support squad but they are so expensive.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on the Graviton Gun Support Squad available to the Iron Hands and, by extension, the Alpha Legion?

[Anvilarium]

Anyone have any thoughts on the Graviton Gun Support Squad available to the Iron Hands and, by extension, the Alpha Legion?

 

I've got two 10-Man Iron Hand Legion Support Teams with Graviton Guns. Haven't had a chance to field them yet though.

[Knight of the Raven]

 It'll be a toss up between the Volkite Chargers, Calivers or Plasma Guns.

Magneeeeets.

[Emperors Teeth]

 

I've got two 10-Man Iron Hand Legion Support Teams with Graviton Guns. Haven't had a chance to field them yet though.

 

Yer a loony! A glorious, technoarcana-loving loony! I was thinking of have one squad of 5-10, but two full squads?!?! Please field them and share the results. Pretty please.

 

I'm seriously considering running at least one 10-man squad with Volkite Chargers in a Rhino. Firstly, cause if I can Outflank them and get a good line-up on some unsuspecting small or remnant unit it should really hurt (even more so against non-marines), but I really liked the full about Legions formerly using Chargers but changing to Boltguns and fancy fielding some Terrans still maintaining the weapons.

[Kilofix]

 

 It'll be a toss up between the Volkite Chargers, Calivers or Plasma Guns.

Magneeeeets.

 

I don't think magnets would be that effective against Marines in Power Armor. Unless maybe if they are really really big magnets.

 

 

 

But really - got any good tutorials on how to magnetize small weaps? Would you magnetize the whole arm or just the barrels?

[Knight of the Raven]

This is the tutorial I used to know what magnet sizes to use, even though it's not actually about hand-held weapons. I don't know of any other tutorial.

 

I've only magnetized arms to torsos and I found myself going 'oops, not enough shoulder pads!' So I suggest magnetizing the weapons to the hands instead, even though I've not actually tried it myself. Unless you have a huge pool of pauldrons and, more difficult to obtain, right arms to hold each special weapon.

 

The magnets I used for linking torsos to arms or jump packs were 3mm x 1mm (3mm x 2mm can work too). I think the magnets you stick in wrists or hands are 2mm x 1mm.

[Hyaenidae]

Not sure if Rotor Cannons are really worth it - at Str 3 you're looking at 5+'s to wound standard Marines. Even with 60 shots you're looking at a hell of a lot of failed wounds.

 

Oh, but the conversion potential! I'm imagining ten Iron Warriors, trudging through the trenchlines, carrying .50 Cal Ma Deuces' with adamantium barrels and their headspace and timing turned up to dangerous levels, pouring fire into enemy lines at a vicious rate, brass pinging off their warplate and hissing at it hits the mud.

 

Hell with it. I'm doin' it. Ten man squad with rotors.

 

Chugga Chugga Chugga. 

[Kilofix]

Ooo... headspace and timing. I feel like I can relate to you.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Not sure if Rotor Cannons are really worth it - at Str 3 you're looking at 5+'s to wound standard Marines. Even with 60 shots you're looking at a hell of a lot of failed wounds.

Oh, but the conversion potential! I'm imagining ten Iron Warriors, trudging through the trenchlines, carrying .50 Cal Ma Deuces' with adamantium barrels and their headspace and timing turned up to dangerous levels, pouring fire into enemy lines at a vicious rate, brass pinging off their warplate and hissing at it hits the mud.

Hell with it. I'm doin' it. Ten man squad with rotors.

Chugga Chugga Chugga.

And all those Imperial Fists standing there looking embarrassed as the bullets ricochet off their power armour