BassWave Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 If only rotor cannons had shred... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3687479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 i've taken a lesson from some filthy xenos as regards lower strength weapons, the old cyclic ion blaster of tau origins. str 3 assault 5 rending. now i would happily exchange rending for up to 60 shots a turn for a ten man rotor cannon freshly thinking about it. its just plain dirty :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3687489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I don't agree zedmeister. They're give up more than just half the range of the calivers - they also lose strength. Between the two, the range is the more important, but it's a double hit to effectiveness while still costing as much. If anything, those chargers should be a free swap for the flamers. I also disagree with the general usage of the chargers on the support squad. This is fundamentally an anti-infantry squad, and the most common infantry you'll be dealing with is tacticals. To use the chargers against them, you're going to have to walk into bolter range before you can get a shot off with the chargers, and the tacticals have numbers and price per model going for them, and the small strength bonus of the charger doesn't make up for the support marines essentially costing twice as much. On top of which, the advantage of the calivers is that you can use the support squad as a backfield scoring unit. Walking up the field to use them as anti-infantry is basically pointless, since tactical marines are better at that anyway. Since when? In my copy of Betrayal the charger is 15' range, assault 2, S and AP5, while the caliver is 30' range, heavy 2 and S and AP5. So the only differences are range and heavy vs assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3687514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 The Caliver is S6 though. I'm still undecided. Basically the list I made is lacking a good way to kill elites, and while a plasma gun squad would solve that, they would probably be too close and die horribly before they can do something really good. plus, they would need a TLing psyker to help them out and I would be wasting a centurion slot when I could get a siege master and give a heavy support squad something more. I already have long range with the afformentioned Heavy support squad and it's autocannons/Missile Launchers, so I defiantly think I need a good way to kill elites. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3687539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Since when is the Caliver S6? I'm pretty sure it's S5 in my copy of Betrayal (don't have it with me to check first hand), and this thread from a while ago says they're both S5. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267575-what-is-a-volkite-caliver/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3687750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passeltov Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Since when is the Caliver S6? I'm pretty sure it's S5 in my copy of Betrayal (don't have it with me to check first hand), and this thread from a while ago says they're both S5. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267575-what-is-a-volkite-caliver/ Just looked it up on page 233. Volite Caliver have a strengh of 6. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3687760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Caliver is S6 (just checked my copy of betrayal) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3687766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Not sure if Rotor Cannons are really worth it - at Str 3 you're looking at 5+'s to wound standard Marines. Even with 60 shots you're looking at a hell of a lot of failed wounds. Oh, but the conversion potential! I'm imagining ten Iron Warriors, trudging through the trenchlines, carrying .50 Cal Ma Deuces' with adamantium barrels and their headspace and timing turned up to dangerous levels, pouring fire into enemy lines at a vicious rate, brass pinging off their warplate and hissing at it hits the mud. Hell with it. I'm doin' it. Ten man squad with rotors. Chugga Chugga Chugga. And all those Imperial Fists standing there looking embarrassed as the bullets ricochet off their power armour It's all fun and games until you catch a .50 cal slug in the throat or eyelens. Let's see your transhuman constitution recover from that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3687877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlandMoonGuy Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 To make it clear: The assault versions; Serpentas & Chargers are both S5 The heavy versions; Calviers & Culverin are S6 Support squads can only take Calviers. And from what Tiger9 is looking for, sounds like some culverin support marines would work well for their intended role. And they do make for cool looking marines that are classic 30K: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v699/OwlandMoonGuy/30K%20Iron%20Hands/IMG_1419_zpsfba94165.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3687934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armond Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I will be using chargers in a Terror Squad, got the pieces washed, now to file and decide how to go. In any case, Support Squads are great for filling the gap in your army. Or, just picking something that looks cool. For me that is MKIII armoured support squad with autocannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3687971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedmeister Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 As per the latest crusade army list recently released, tactical support squads now have the options of taking Volkite chargers for the same price as calivers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3688108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlandMoonGuy Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Really? I've not seen that called out in any of the update summaries I've seen. Thanks for the correction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3688217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvilarium Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Really? I've not seen that called out in any of the update summaries I've seen. Thanks for the correction. See my summary here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3688231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Hmmm ... I've got 5 mk3's built and was waiting for more so I could use them as my first IH's tac squad. Think they may end up as a supports squad as I'm sure I've got enough special weapons in the bits boxes. Cheers for the inspiration! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3688258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Please heathens make those conversions, it sounds so awesome. I am tempted for a Rotor Cannon Squad. 5 marines with MINIGUNS! I love miniguns. I blame Predator and Terminator 2 I watched so much as a kid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3688279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvilarium Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Hmmm ... I've got 5 mk3's built and was waiting for more so I could use them as my first IH's tac squad. Think they may end up as a supports squad as I'm sure I've got enough special weapons in the bits boxes. Cheers for the inspiration! Good luck! PS: Don't forget that Support Squads cannot fill Compulsory Troop slots, so you have to have two other Troop Choices to fill the two compulsory slots to meet your '1 x HQ & 2 x Troops' minimum requirement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3688366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 but they can still score, which is awesome. Still, If I don't have enough anti-elite/Mc, what should I use? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3688710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Hmmm ... I've got 5 mk3's built and was waiting for more so I could use them as my first IH's tac squad. Think they may end up as a supports squad as I'm sure I've got enough special weapons in the bits boxes. Cheers for the inspiration! Good luck! PS: Don't forget that Support Squads cannot fill Compulsory Troop slots, so you have to have two other Troop Choices to fill the two compulsory slots to meet your '1 x HQ & 2 x Troops' minimum requirement. Don't worry, the IH's will eventually have quite a few full tac squads. I aim to have one full tac squad per support squad I do. There's nothing quite like massed bolter fire to say 30k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3688770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 but they can still score, which is awesome. Still, If I don't have enough anti-elite/Mc, what should I use? Dress a small child up as a Titan? I've got 2 that are highly effective at picking out the most expensive models from a collection and breaking them. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3688772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losark Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Take The Volkites Tiger. Whichever suits Your Play Style. The bane Of Elites Is Mass Armor Saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3688860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratul29 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Guys I'm thinking of using my 10 mk 4 marines I have painted up as support marines. Would mk 4 be fluffy as a DG support sqaud? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291006-help-me-understand-support-squads/page/2/#findComment-3696927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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