b1soul Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Have any Terran Space Wolves appeared in the fluff. Space Wolf geneseed is only compatibly with Fenrisians, yes? ...or would the transformation success rate for Terran SW recruits be atrociously low as opposed to zero? I'm guessing the Terran VIth legion was tiny Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Longfang in Prospero Burns was Terran born but could remember nothing of Terra anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Have any Terran Space Wolves appeared in the fluff. Space Wolf geneseed is only compatibly with Fenrisians, yes? ...or would the transformation success rate for Terran SW recruits be atrociously low as opposed to zero? I'm guessing the Terran VIth legion was tiny Space Wolves choose only to recruit from Fenris. Fenrisians are not the only ones that can be recruited. That said, there is apparently something unique that the VI Legion does during the implantation process that the Wolf Brothers forgot to do as by 40K, the Chapter is considered quite dead except for a few random Marines and the blame is put on the gene-seed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I thought the Helix mattered in some capacity, but maybe I'm missing something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm gonna have to dig up the old IA, but off the top of my head, there were definitely Terran Wolves. From the few tidbits in the FW HH books, there was a veil of secrecy around the VI Legion during the Unification. I'm guessing because of severe issues with the Gene-seed properly taking in recruits (and probably the occasional violent Wulfen transformation that left many scientists dead). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 That said, there is apparently something unique that the VI Legion does during the implantation process that the Wolf Brothers forgot to do as by 40K, the Chapter is considered quite dead except for a few random Marines and the blame is put on the gene-seed. I remember something along the lines of recruiting non-Fenrisians results in an abysmally low success rate Isn't that in part why the Space Wolves legion was reduced to a single chapter? They suffered massive combined losses against the TSons and Alpha Legion and it was hard to set up new chapters as the recruitment pool was limited to Fenris for all practical purposes On top of that, Magnus also wrecked Wymrblade's plan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 They were reduced to a single Chapter because their only Second Founding Chapter, the Wolf Brothers, imploded on itself and the excuse was the gene-seed with the real reason perhaps never being known. But, from Scars- “The Wolves numbers had never been among the highest, a feature exacerbated by their aggressive drive to limit recruitment to Fenris, and their constant deployment – usually self-appointed – to some of the most arduous warzones of the campaign.” Excerpt From: Wraight, Chris. “Scars: Collector's Edition.” Black Library, 2013-12. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright. If you only do something one way and that's the way you like doing it, then why would you have to stop doing it another way? What was Wyrmblade's plan? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 What was Wyrmblade's plan? He had a cure for the Curse of the Wulfen. I believe fixing that problem would've drastically lowered the geneseed rejection rate among SW recruits. His dream was to have numerous SW successor chapters guarding the Eye Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 That wouldn't really fix the rejection rate. The rejection rate is average percent of recruits that either are rejected by the gene-seed, or reject the gene-seed. The Curse of the Wulfen is a genetic defect within the gene-seed. It would only afflict those whose body did not reject the gene-seed, much in the same way only Blood Angels who have bonded with the gene-seed are afflicted by the Black Rage and Red Thirst. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 His plan was to lower the rejection rate among non-Fenrisians. So that other planets could host SW successers; Like the Ultramarines. Bjorn, said he would have destroyed the work if he found out about it anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Bit close-minded, now, aren't we, Bjorn? Ah, good old future... Like Heathens said, there must've been Terran Wolves. All Legions started with Terran Legionnaires, as far as I know. Wasn't there word that the Wolves recruited from nowadays' Scandinavia? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 That wouldn't really fix the rejection rate. The rejection rate is average percent of recruits that either are rejected by the gene-seed, or reject the gene-seed. The Curse of the Wulfen is a genetic defect within the gene-seed. It would only afflict those whose body did not reject the gene-seed, much in the same way only Blood Angels who have bonded with the gene-seed are afflicted by the Black Rage and Red Thirst. No...the Curse of the Wulfen is tied to the Canis Helix. The Canis Helix is tied to the rejection rate as the SW rejection rate is exceptionally high because of the Canis Helix. However, the Fenrisian population is more compatible with the Canis Helix. Removing the Curse of the Wulfen inherent in the Canis Helix might make the Canis Helix less...volatile. Hence, the rejection rate of SW geneseed is lowered. EDIT: What I meant by "cure" is that Wyrmblade apparently figures out how to remove the Curse of the Wulfen from SW geneseed. The Curse of the Wulfen is a flaw in the geneseed...similar to the Red Thirst suffered by the BA. I didn't mean that Wyrmblade found a way to cure those already afflicted with the Curse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Ok, so its not that the Curse of the Wulfen is responsible for the rejection rate, but rather the Canis Helix, which is also responsible for causing the defect, has the side effect of limiting the genetic pool and Fenrisians happen to be compatible with that genetic pool. So fix the Helix, and you fix both the rejection rate and the Curse. Gotcha. Well, there were Terran Wolves before Russ. And IIRC, didn't The Ragnar novels have it as legend that Russ incorporated the Helix? Maybe as part of the drive to limit recruitment to Fenris, Russ sought to specifically tailor the gene-seed to Fenrisian DNA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3686860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Doesn't Extermination mention that one Legion failed the final test before large scale implantation??? IIrc, it was called the "Alpha Stage". It could be possible that the legion that failed was the SWs. Possibly requiring additional implantations (Canis Helix) to even get a reasonable yet still substandard recruitement numbers. It might go a long way to begin explaining why the SWs seem to have a completely different process then every other Chapter in 40K. As a side note: When the Helix if fixed in Battle of the Fang. The end result was visually not a SW. To the point that shocked a Fenrisian who lived in the Fang. Who was also sworn to silence later in the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It mentions there was some sort of genetic experiment that imploded, but it also mentions the [Redacted] experiment with a few other things that definitely were not Legions. So, who knows. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 KK, I'll have to reread when I get time. I just remember thinking that it might have been a genetic flaw that may have resulted in one of the "Lost" Legions. Supporting the idea that Sanguinius believed that if the Emperor knew about the thirst then the Blood Angels might the be third "Lost" Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Doesn't Extermination mention that one Legion failed the final test before large scale implantation??? IIrc, it was called the "Alpha Stage". It could be possible that the legion that failed was the SWs. Possibly requiring additional implantations (Canis Helix) to even get a reasonable yet still substandard recruitement numbers. It might go a long way to begin explaining why the SWs seem to have a completely different process then every other Chapter in 40K. As a side note: When the Helix if fixed in Battle of the Fang. The end result was visually not a SW. To the point that shocked a Fenrisian who lived in the Fang. Who was also sworn to silence later in the book. Why would even the name of the experiment be redacted if it was the Wolves? That doesn't really make sense, you might as well speculate that it was the Blood Angels (who also have a rather different recruitment method) due to whatever they have that causes the Red Thirst, or the Thousand Sons, what with the whole 'flesh change' thing. I think the only thing that can be said with any real certainty about the [redacted] in Extermination is that it was unlikely to be any of the extant Legions, because we know about them. We have examples of secrecy around the known Legions, such as the Trefoil of the VI, XVIII and XX, that isn't [redacted], so I'd say [redacted] is something else; maybe one of the Lost Legions, maybe there were meant to be 25 Primarchs, maybe it was related to the end of the Thunder Warriors, maybe it was a failed attempt in what became the Custodes (because aren't their origins really hush hush?). We have no way of knowing, and it's unlikely we ever will. What the kaerl saw in Battle for The Fang was a failed test subject, not the helix being fixed. Been a while since I read the passage, but it struck me as merely a dead Wulfen in a science vat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Well, we know Russ was one of the earliest found Primarchs. We also know the VI Legion was one of the Emperor's "personal Legions" that he spent some alone time with. We also know the VI Legion does have a history of [REDACTED] through out its history. Whose to say that at one time or another, the [REDACTED] was their name? Although ironically, this would mean that they're considered a failure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 That's kinda my point, we know the Wolves have been involved in some [redacted] before, if the Wolves are the Alpha Legion fluff's [redacted], why is their name/number also included in the redaction? Which, coupled with having no other evidence of the Wolves being considered a failure (if anything, they're the opposite, pretty much what the Emperor wanted/needed), is why I say the VI don't fit as candidates for [redacted]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 If you were the Emperor would you really want others to know that when implanted with a geneseed many subjects become huge (3 meters tall in some audios) werewolf like monsters. Even the ones that don't change become little better then beast until they learn to control it somewhat. What would anyone who found out about this think. How would you even begin to offer some kind of justification for not ending the SWs right then. Simply deleting the details is a much cleaner answer. Besides things like the red thrist don't have visual components like a Wulfen does. Remember the Wolf Brothers turned into crazy monsters and the Space Wolves never attempted another successer because of genetic instablility. Sounds like something the Emperor (as I'm sure he knew) would not want known. It could even play into why the Emperor has "Special" plans for the Wolves. I will reread the parts in Extermination and see what is said and re-evaluate if needs be. From Battle of the Fang: Morek felt the sense of wrongness immediately. For a moment, he couldn’t work out what, precisely, was so troubling about the corpse – he’d seen many before – but then he paid more attention. The forearms were smooth, almost hair-free. The fingernails were no longer than his own. The jawline was square-cut and blunt, but with no signs of lupine distension. There was no room in that mouth for fangs, just mortal dentition. Morek moved closer, feeling his breathing quicken slightly. The corpse had its eyes open, blank and unseeing. They were grey like his, with a pupil like a mortal’s. There was no extraneous facial hair across the thick-set face, no heavy bone-ridge across the brow. The musculature was still there, rigid and heavy-set across an outsize skeletal frame, but it was blank and featureless. Whatever this thing was, it was no Space Wolf. It was a sham, a simulacrum, a mockery. Not even slightly "Wulfen". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Well, we know Russ was one of the earliest found Primarchs. We also know the VI Legion was one of the Emperor's "personal Legions" that he spent some alone time with. We also know the VI Legion does have a history of [REDACTED] through out its history. Whose to say that at one time or another, the [REDACTED] was their name? Although ironically, this would mean that they're considered a failure. I can see the Wolves of 30K being considered "Failures" and a necessary evil right in line with the World Eaters and Night Lords. Maybe without the "Executioner" thing the Wolves would have been "Lost Legion 3". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The Night Lords aren't failures. You can only fail at something if you try and they never tried being anything other than killers. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Their idea of ruling through fear is a failure. Sure it worlks short term but when you are not around they act the way they want anyways... Cough, cough... Nostromo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Their idea of ruling through fear is a failure. Sure it worlks short term but when you are not around they act the way they want anyways... Cough, cough... NostromoHey, Nostramo doesn't bother anyone anymore. Besides, they do what the rest of the Imperium does. Except Angron. He just kills everything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 LOL. If you want you can consider them part of the "Necessary evils" rather than failures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291049-terran-space-wolves/#findComment-3687614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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