Terran Space Wolves

[Kais Klip]

In reply to thread: There are no wolves on Fenris.

Sorry.

In reply to Curze: while I disagree with the extremes, I have to say I agree with the fundamentals of Curze's philosophy; the majority of creatures of thought are kept in order through fear more than anything else, be it fear of the alpha male or fear of law and persecution. And it case of Nostramo, it wouldn't be as dismissive as it usually is to just blame its fall on the fact that it is a veritable -hole. Take Guilliman, our auspiciously admired leader, what in hell's name would he have done with it? Curze's flaw was he didn't wave something bright and shiny like the other primarchs did to distract their populace from the fact that their obedience is dictated through fear, like patriotism or glory.

[Leif Bearclaw]

OK, I misremembered the Battle for the Fang bit, my bad. But on that score, I don't think that can be inferred to be related to [redacted], as the Tempering was post-Emperor gene seed tampering, more akin to the first founding. Although the Flame Falcons went wrong a caught fire thanks to their gene-seed being messed with, that doesn't mean there was some additional, systemic flaw in the progenitor's gene-seed.

 

It's worth noting that [redacted] is from the time that the Legions were being formed. So while the VIII and XII ended up failures (along with every other Traitor Legion really), it seems at creation they were pretty much what the Emperor wanted, or at least didn't object to. If the VI was a failure at that stage, they may well have come to be [redacted], but then there wouldn't be a VI Legion, and there is. I don't see how the Wolves are failures, when the likes of the BAs, with their own gene-seed issues, aren't. Plus it seems that the Wolves were made for a specific purpose (Trefoil, [redacted] actions and their own claims), I don't see where the scope for 'failure' is here, it looks like they were exactly what they were meant to be.

 

While I can see the Wulfen not being common knowledge, the perspective of the HH FW books is of a high clearance summary of the war, after it was over. I don't see why they'd [redact] the Wulfen, when they leave in the Traitors, the corruption of the DE and EC, and I assume the Red Thirst once it's the BAs turn.

 

Here's another random thought and speculation. It's been established that certain Legion traits only manifested once reunited with the Primarch (Salamanders and Raven Guard skin colourations). For all we know atm, the Wulfen could have been a trait of the VI gene-seed that only materialised once the Legion made Fenris its home.

[Stonerhino]

Longfang, in Prospero Burns was called Longfang because of his teeth.  He was terran so that kind of excludes the idea that those changes happened post Russ' finding.  That's not to say that the Wulfen curse is the same.  Only to say that things like the dentition were also present in the oldest Terran SWs.

 

If I remember correctly there are [Redacted] dates [2] that involve the SWs and one that does not mention a Legion, in FW's HH-2.  So that is to say that the "Author" has his limits on what he can/is willing to actually tell us.  For example if he said [Redacted] involving Space Wolves  After telling us about the final stges of a genetic expirement.  Then we would now what the [Redacted] information is likely to be. 

[Leif Bearclaw]

So why are you leaning toward's the Wolves as [redacted]? It if does indeed refer to an extant Legion, it could just as easily have been the Blood Angels, Night Lord's, Salamanders etc. all of which had abnormal gene-seed traits.

 

And we wouldn't know what the information is likely to be, only taht is involved the Wolves, it could have been trying to stabilise the Helix, it could have been trying to accentuate its effects, making an even more powerful Astartes, it could have been a trial to see if Chaos resistant gene-seed (a trait of the Helix, hence the 13th Company's lack of corruption) could be successfully implanted into 'tainted' stock, it could have been trialling a 20th implant for the Astartes that didn't work. Just knowing the Legion involved doesn't make the information clear. At best it turns these discussions from 'what happened to the Lost Legions' to 'is Garro Janus'. Equally unanswerable  questions in the current state of fluff, but one has slightly more info behind  it than the other.

 

As far as Longfang, a quote form Extermination about the Raven Guard:

 

'Under the effects of the XIXth's gene-seed, some found their skin growing unnaturally pale while in a few their already dark hair turned black as midnight. In a small number, thier eyes turned entirely black, lending them a fearsome aspect that suited their inscrutable, watchful mien. Only later, with the coming of the Legion's Primarch, would the full import of these feature become known and take hold fully throughout its warriors'

 

That last bit suggests that not all Terrans had changed in appearance before unification with Corax, but afterwards, the traits spread through the entire Legion, both Terra and Deliverance born alike. So it doesn't seem impossible that VI Legion traits, like the Fangs, lupine visage and yellow eyes, were present to some extent before Russ' discovery, and became universal across the Legion's strength after Russ took over. Coupled to that, it's entirely possible that the Wulfen manifested as part of the wholesale adoption of 'Legion traits' once they found Russ.

[GhostMalone]

Didn't they use the primarchs DNA upon discovery to stabilise the gene seed. That would make sense considering the original gene seed was based upon their makeup and blueprints.

 

This to me suggests how a Terran recruit destined for the 16th could complete training be full astrates and then sent to the 5th upon discovery the pure genetic matrix overlapping geneseed then pass on/inherits a pure genetic code which refines to vampirism warewolfism psychic prowress etc etc.

 

This shows how the legions pre primarch have similarities without the primarch present.

[mactire]

There is a part in ATS where Magnus talks to Ahriman (I think) about the colonists on Fenris, pre crusade or finding of Russ, altering their DNA to adapt to their surrounding's. He hints that wolf or bear DNA was used, I think he implies that this along with the Canis Helix is what results in the SW's flaws and also the reason for wolves on Fenris resulting from mutating of aspirants or the human population. 

[Grimtooth]

So here are some tidbits per Vash in the SW forum;

 

 

I just got finished reading the Horus Heresy Book 3 and surprisingly
there were a few little interesting Space Wolf nuggets in there.

 

Firstly it's established that the VI Legion (Space Wolves), XVIII
Legion (Salamanders) and XX Legion (Alpha Legion), were all developed
and trained in isolation from the other proto-legions and rumored to
have been developed for a specific purpose. This further cements the
idea that the Space Wolves were the Emperor's executioners against the
other legiones and it opens some questions as to what the purpose of the
Salamanders might have been. 

 

Secondly the book indicates that the VI Legion had significant
difficulties during the escalation of gene-seed implementation. The
initial proto-legion was apparently a success but growing the
proto-legion into full strength saw significant difficulties until the
Gene-Labs of Luna were captured and put to use. Also apparently the VI
were not alone in these problems but it's not specified which other
legions had similar difficulties. This adds tangential support to the
idea that the Terran Legionaries had a harder time adapting to the Space
Wolves gene-seed than the later Fenresian recruits or at the very least
that the Space Wolves gene-seed was more difficult to implement than
others, perhaps giving an answer as to how and why the Wolf Brothers
failed.

 

Lastly there's a small bit of information regarding the Assault on
Gate 42, an incident involving the Raven Guard. During the war council
between Horus, Perturabo, Corax and Leman Russ the Raven Guard Primarch
gave reservations about the XIX Legion engaging in a direct assault and
drew ire from Perturabo who essentially called Corax a coward. The two
would have come to blows had not Leman Russ intervened as a mediator
(Imagine that!) and counseled Corax to take the assignment and do it
regardless of his reservations. The idea that in a heated scenario it
was Leman Russ who was the peacemaker... wow.

 

Anyway just some stuff I noticed in Book 3.

So yes, Terran Wolves existed.  The geneseed implementation had problems until the gene labs on Luna were captured.  Fenrisian biology seems to have lessened the rejection rate or maybe it was just refined enough on Luna to cut down on rejection rates.

 

The Tempering in Battle of the Fang was an attempt to modify the Wolves geneseed to remove the curse of the wolf while retaining all the other qualities of the Wolves geneseed.  The plan was to basically create a legions worth of successor chapters to encircle the Eye of Terror and would rival that of Ultramar.  Bjorn does mention that had he known he would have destroyed it himself because it would not be as Russ intended.

[b1soul]

. . . 

 

Yeah...I was using the phrase "Curse of the Wulfen" to refer to the genetic flaw inherent in the Canix Helix (this flaw is reponsible for both the Wulfen mutation and the high rejection rate). I suppose you could view this flaw as either a single flaw or two closely related flaws...since many aspirants who "reject" SW geneseed do so by mutating into werewolf-like monstrosities right after implantation.     

 

I think you were using "Curse of the Wulfen" to refer to the werewolf-like symptoms caused by the flaw.  

[Grimtooth]

 

 

. . .

Yeah...I was using the phrase "Curse of the Wulfen" to refer to the genetic flaw inherent in the Canix Helix (this flaw is reponsible for both the Wulfen mutation and the high rejection rate). I suppose you could view this flaw as either a single flaw or two closely related flaws...since many aspirants who "reject" SW geneseed do so by mutating into werewolf-like monstrosities right after implantation.

 

I think you were using "Curse of the Wulfen" to refer to the werewolf-like symptoms caused by the flaw.

The codex says that the SW geneseed is especially potent and is responsible for the deaths of many aspirants. I think it says something like in the millions. I hate referencing the Ragnar series, but some of the aspirants just died or went insane after drinking from the Cup of the Wulfen. Lars was the only one that they described as going full Wulfen.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, I was using to the Curse as reference to the Wulfen any Space Wolf is capable of mutating into, like in the Ragnar novels and at the Razing of Prospero. My bad for the confusion.

 

To the above, actually it was in Massacre that it was first stated the VI, XVIII and XX Legions spent alone time with the Emperor and it was restated in Massacre. However, no word is given about "executioners" except in Betrayal, and that was in reference to the XII Legion. Of course, if you want that to imply the executioner schtick, then by all means, imply what makes you happy.

[Grimtooth]

Yeah, I was using to the Curse as reference to the Wulfen any Space Wolf is capable of mutating into, like in the Ragnar novels and at the Razing of Prospero. My bad for the confusion.

 

To the above, actually it was in Massacre that it was first stated the VI, XVIII and XX Legions spent alone time with the Emperor and it was restated in Massacre. However, no word is given about "executioners" except in Betrayal, and that was in reference to the XII Legion. Of course, if you want that to imply the executioner schtick, then by all means, imply what makes you happy.

I just quoted what Vash posted in the SW forum in regard to his reading and interpretation of Book 3 and how it related to the discussion at hand. The VIth as executioners has been discussed to death and been brought up over several novels now. The ultimate end of that discussion will come when the HH book is released for the Wolves/Sons.

[Leman Russ SW]

In the old SW fluff the curse of the Wulfen didn't material until the reunion with Russ. When Russ was found all his warriors wanted too be implanted with the gene seed and become marines will full knowledge only some would survive. One of these implanted was jealous of Russ and after being implanted his negative traits rose to the fore and he became a monster. This guys name was Wulfen.

[Hyaenidae]

I'll have to dig through the ol' library when i get home, but there was a SW short in one of the HH short story novels, about a Wolf company who are attempting to liberate a world under enslavement to the Dark Eldar. One of the main characters' pack was a Terran.

 

Damn, I hate being at work when i remember crap like this...

[Grimtooth]

It was Wolf at the Door and it was in regard to the 13th Co and he was a Terran Wolf.