Coteaz summoning Bloodletters

[Gentlemanloser]

http://daemons40k.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/new-psychic-info.html

 

 

Unlike many of his fellow Inquisitors of the Ordo Malleus, Coteaz always refused to contemplate harnessing the power of the Warp for his own ends

 

Codex: Grey Knights - Page 45

[Dread]

First off let me say, "HAHAHAHA!!! Nice catch GL" and secondly, the 40k universe seems to be collapsing in on itself. The day the GK summon daemon's, their preferred enemy btw, well I don't really need to say anything else. Every real GK player will say NO to this absurdity! New edition or not! Wow 5th edition is looking better and better all the time now.
IMHO

[Valkyrion]

I'll buy it and read it and digest it, then go back to 2nd edition. My future now lies in the past.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Well undercurrent fluff GK are prepared to massacre Sisters of Battle and bathe in their blood to win a battle so summoning daemons to " fight fire with fire" seems a very small leap.

 

That said just because something is an option no one is forcing you to use it. Stay true to the good GK fluff and refuse to summon daemons. If you face a GK force that does, then in your own mind make fluff for that battle that these are not GK but chaos marines who have adopted GK like weaponry and burn the heretics.

 

Same with inquisitors. I will never summon daemons but my inquisitor will hunt the radical jerks who do to his last breath. And that includes the imposter Coteazes.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Dark days ahead brothers. The enemy will be everywhere, and we will be the only pure ones left. 

[Gentlemanloser]

It's rather that GW themselves are pushing this fluff abomination.

 

While trying to pursuade us to play fluffy games and don't be 'that guy'!

 

What, the guy that ignores all the fluff and has the OP Coteaz use the OP Daemonolgy powers?

 

But, aren't we supposed *not* to do that?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

It's rather that GW themselves are pushing this fluff abomination.

 

While trying to pursuade us to play fluffy games and don't be 'that guy'!

 

What, the guy that ignores all the fluff and has the OP Coteaz use the OP Daemonolgy powers?

 

But, aren't we supposed *not* to do that?

You're missing the point. GW are only doing this to sell models. That's it. Daemon infantry are so pathetically bad not even Daemon players use them (beyond min Plaguebearers), so they're trying to get sales by conning other armies into summoning them. Ignoring the fact that at their own encouragement, everyone will just use cheap Mastery 1 psykers to summon Greater Daemons/Princes. So really, nothing changes. 

 

GW don't care about the rules or the meta. That's always been the concern of the players themselves, not the company. Witness the knee-jerk of 6th, where vehicles went from "well no one takes transports in 4th, so lets make them cheap and efficient in 5th" to "oh wow a wall of Chimeras, that's no fun, lets give vehicles wounds to make them worse than MC's, so the MC kits sell better". Then they created the twin abominations of Riptide and Heldrake, both of which warp the entire game around themselves. 

 

On the plus side, now that everyone is going to be summoning daemons, we're a very relevant force again. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Pfft. I'm missing nothing. ;)

 

Already said it was an effort to get you to purchase a second full army to use laongside your normal army.

 

But this is just a blatant fluff :cuss.  GW don't care about rules, we all know that.  But now, they are actively sacrificing thier own fluff to sell MOAR as well.

 

That's the point.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

(shrug) It's their IP. This isn't the first time they've retconned or changed how 40k operates to sell the model range. You can either laugh or cry. I'm choosing to believe this is their way of expressing it's the end times (why else would everyone be summoning daemons?). Maybe we'll even get the Final Battle happening. 

[BloodTzar]

I just do not get it; assuming during Horus heresy the psykers in order to repeal demon+chaos forces used as the last resort "summoning of the good demons"? ... More than retarded, but I may be wrong.

 

Do not want to even start the GK's seeing allied inq summoning hordes of demons next to them and cheering with joy.

[number6]

Sorry to say, but at this point I am about one step away from leaving the hobby altogether. I simply do not like All Apocalypse All The Time. I just don't like how completely blown apart and permissive the game has become, and is still becoming.

 

If the rumor that any unit -- not just Troops -- can claim objectives holds true, I really and truly will go. The Troops-only-scoring has been the single greatest rules feature of 40K over the past 6 years. To throw that out the window in favor of Unbound armies breaks the game from something with a tactical challenge to just the world's most expensive game of Snakes and Ladders. He with the biggest wallet and the luckiest dice wins. Wow. Exciting.

 

When quite literally anything is possible, nothing has any meaning any more. And I live in a meta where players can and do abuse the crap out the rules, so there just won't be any fun in any games unless I'm willing to continue the arms race on all fronts.

 

And the final straw breaking my back: I don't like the ridiculous fluff changes. Ezekiel summoning a Bloodthirster?! REALLY?! Everybody and their mother summoning daemons? REALLY?!

 

No thank you.

[Gentlemanloser]

I want someone to deviantart a GK bro fisting a Daemon.

 

Edit:  Don't worry Number6, we all now these rules are bunk, and they require your opponents permission.  And no one is going to be 'that guy' and even try to use any of the new rules GW have given them, and that they have shelled out hard earned cash for.

 

No, no one will be 'that guy' who just wants to use the rules he's bought.

 

/sigh

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I just do not get it; assuming during Horus heresy the psykers in order to repeal demon+chaos forces used as the last resort "summoning of the good demons"? ... More than retarded, but I may be wrong.

 

Do not want to even start the GK's seeing allied inq summoning hordes of demons next to them and cheering with joy.

 

I'm not into 30K at all so I'm not sure what you're saying in the first paragraph.

 

But as to the second, as I don't see why this is something to get too wrapped-around the axle about. Firstly, if it did happen, surely the GKs would not be "cheering with joy". They'd probably be pretty pissed. They might be willing to finish the battle to defeat the enemy, then after mopping up the daemons summoned by the inquisitor take care of the inquisitor himself. But this isn't really all that new ... we've had radical inquisitors who would be taken alongside GK since third edition who could have daemonhosts which are no different than summoning daemons in my view. The 40K universe is expansive enough to come up with all kinds of narratives to explain this stuff you just have to be a bit creative.

 

And, again, I can't stress this enough -- to thine own self be true. No one is forcing you to field this stuff. And as Reclusiarch Darius said, if everyone and their dog starts bringing daemons it will make GK a lot more relevant and now the anti-daemon bonuses will be even better in tournament situations where you face a wide variety of armies. Although if daemon infantry are as pathetic as suggested they may not be omnipresent.

 

I'm a bit jazzed to learn that, likewise, all the anti-psyker stuff that my Ordo Hereticus themed stuff has may now be useful against a wider variety of armies.

 

Although I'm not sure about Mastery Level Psykers being able to summon greater daemons ... it's hard to read the blurry images online but it looks like 3 warp charge to use that summoning power. I guess it depends on how warp charges are generated/distributed but wouldn't that mean only ML3 psykers could do that?

[Gentlemanloser]

No, becuase everyone get an extr +1d6 Warp Charges.

 

A PML1 Psyker would need to roll just a 2+ on a d6 to get enough for WC3.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Ah, I missed that one.

[Gentlemanloser]

And the more Psyker units you're able to summon, the more potential Warp Charges you can get. :(

[BloodTzar]

 

I just do not get it; assuming during Horus heresy the psykers in order to repeal demon+chaos forces used as the last resort "summoning of the good demons"? ... More than retarded, but I may be wrong.

 

Do not want to even start the GK's seeing allied inq summoning hordes of demons next to them and cheering with joy.

 

I'm not into 30K at all so I'm not sure what you're saying in the first paragraph.

 

But as to the second, as I don't see why this is something to get too wrapped-around the axle about. Firstly, if it did happen, surely the GKs would not be "cheering with joy". They'd probably be pretty pissed. They might be willing to finish the battle to defeat the enemy, then after mopping up the daemons summoned by the inquisitor take care of the inquisitor himself. But this isn't really all that new ... we've had radical inquisitors who would be taken alongside GK since third edition who could have daemonhosts which are no different than summoning daemons in my view. The 40K universe is expansive enough to come up with all kinds of narratives to explain this stuff you just have to be a bit creative.

 

And, again, I can't stress this enough -- to thine own self be true. No one is forcing you to field this stuff. And as Reclusiarch Darius said, if everyone and their dog starts bringing daemons it will make GK a lot more relevant and now the anti-daemon bonuses will be even better in tournament situations where you face a wide variety of armies. Although if daemon infantry are as pathetic as suggested they may not be omnipresent.

 

I'm a bit jazzed to learn that, likewise, all the anti-psyker stuff that my Ordo Hereticus themed stuff has may now be useful against a wider variety of armies.

 

Although I'm not sure about Mastery Level Psykers being able to summon greater daemons ... it's hard to read the blurry images online but it looks like 3 warp charge to use that summoning power. I guess it depends on how warp charges are generated/distributed but wouldn't that mean only ML3 psykers could do that?

Yes , you are right , no one forces you into taking demon-summoners; however if the inq worth the 65p can dish out 120+ p of demons every turn; that my friend might be another "uphill battle" edition for GK , not mentioning all the heralds that might be an issue...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

If the rumor that any unit -- not just Troops -- can claim objectives holds true, I really and truly will go. The Troops-only-scoring has been the single greatest rules feature of 40K over the past 6 years. To throw that out the window in favor of Unbound armies breaks the game from something with a tactical challenge to just the world's most expensive game of Snakes and Ladders. He with the biggest wallet and the luckiest dice wins. Wow. Exciting.

Battleforged armies Troops are super-scoring. Basically, even if you're locked in melee with enemy models on an objective, you still score the objective. Unless they too are from a Battle-Forged army and are Troops (and thus the two cancel eachother out, leaving a contested objective). But yeah, provided you're sitting on an objective unopposed, everything else can score now. 

 

When quite literally anything is possible, nothing has any meaning any more. And I live in a meta where players can and do abuse the crap out the rules, so there just won't be any fun in any games unless I'm willing to continue the arms race on all fronts.

Eh, I still haven't seen a Knight-Titan army yet. Seen allied ones, but no one has actually dropped the cash on an entire army of them. They were supposed to break the game, yet because they're so rare we still don't see much impact (aside from them being hard to kill and requiring melta or MC's to the face). 

 

Unbound is player-permission anyway. I'd enjoy the challenge, and also the super-Troops bonus (see above). Mostly I'll enjoy sending all those daemons screaming back to hell :)

 

And the final straw breaking my back: I don't like the ridiculous fluff changes. Ezekiel summoning a Bloodthirster?! REALLY?! Everybody and their mother summoning daemons? REALLY?!

It was a battle report. I ignore everything background-related in batreps. For the sake of your sanity I'd suggest you do the same. 

 

And, again, I can't stress this enough -- to thine own self be true. No one is forcing you to field this stuff. And as Reclusiarch Darius said, if everyone and their dog starts bringing daemons it will make GK a lot more relevant and now the anti-daemon bonuses will be even better in tournament situations where you face a wide variety of armies. Although if daemon infantry are as pathetic as suggested they may not be omnipresent.

As I mentioned earlier, I think the real issue is Greater Daemon mass summoning, not the infantry (which GW are desperately trying to shill). I'll need to read the rules more closely to see how many models they can summon. If someone can summon a full 20-strong pack of Khorne Dogs off one psychic test that changes things a bit :(

 

Yes , you are right , no one forces you into taking demon-summoners; however if the inq worth the 65p can dish out 120+ p of demons every turn; that my friend might be another "uphill battle" edition for GK , not mentioning all the heralds that might be an issue...

I felt physically ill reading the linked articles. Like, they're literally feeding people ideas on how to abuse summoning. 'Hey guy, when your Lord of Change gets down to 1 wound, summon a new one!'. Urgh. 

 

However, I would urge people to try and stay upbeat overall. Look on the bright side, Knights are going to be relevant again, and in a way that's not boring Razorspam. 

[Eddie Orlock]

  ... we've had radical inquisitors who would be taken alongside GK since third edition who could have daemonhosts which are no different than summoning daemons in my view.

Are you certain about this. I seem to recall some caviet in DemonHunters about the two being specifically mutually exclusive.

 

With the re-fluff of the Grey Knights, I'd like to think of this as a 'streamlining' of the process. There's fluff precedent about summoned demons who are banished being unable to return for a set period of time. (Angron on Armageddon) So, the knights summon and bind them to cast them against their enemies to banish both of them and mop up the survivors afterward. No more radical than 'armour paint'.

[Gentlemanloser]

Aye in Codex: Daemonhunters, you couldn't field Deamonhosts with GK units.

 

No such restriction in Codex: GK.

 

And now even GK libbies will be able to summon Daemons (assuming we get access to Malefic Daemonology.  We probably won't.).

 

Edit: But if we *don't*, how did Coteaz summon thoer 'letters?

 

/sigh

[number6]

Battleforged armies Troops are super-scoring. Basically, even if you're locked in melee with enemy models on an objective, you still score the objective. Unless they too are from a Battle-Forged army and are Troops (and thus the two cancel eachother out, leaving a contested objective). But yeah, provided you're sitting on an objective unopposed, everything else can score now.

Boo. I think I'm done, then.

Eh, I still haven't seen a Knight-Titan army yet. Seen allied ones, but no one has actually dropped the cash on an entire army of them. They were supposed to break the game, yet because they're so rare we still don't see much impact (aside from them being hard to kill and requiring melta or MC's to the face).

Then feel lucky. Every game -- and I do mean every game -- since Escalation last December has seen superheavies and/or gargantuans and/or any of the innumerable allies-driven monster steamroller units. At least 2 people own and use Harridans. Everybody has multiple Imperial Knights. Stompas are all over the place. One guy regularly fields IG Baneblade variants alongside his IKs. Half a dozen folks have and use Warhounds. At least 3 people have Reaver titans.

 

Telling these people "No" is not an option.

 

I can't be the only person in this kind of situation. Setting up 40K to be All Apocalypse All The Time pushes people like me out of the hobby because I simply don't have the deep pockets. It makes the game more exclusive, less inclusive.

[Gentlemanloser]

I agree Number6.  Yet the majority of posters here (not the GK subforum :P) seem to think that it's easy to say no to Escalation and therefore Unbound, and no one they play with is 'that guy' becuase they won't get games any more...

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

 

When quite literally anything is possible, nothing has any meaning any more. And I live in a meta where players can and do abuse the crap out the rules, so there just won't be any fun in any games unless I'm willing to continue the arms race on all fronts.

 

I feel for you -- sounds like a crummy area to game. Although it sounds like the problem here is more the gamers than the game itself. Thankfully, I've had no such problems locally.

 

If you live within a decent distance of any of Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, or Dallas, might I suggest you consider Astronomi-con? It's billed as the "the 40k tournament for people that don't like tournaments". They have a good comp system and good scenarios that really limit the abuse and, more importantly, a fantastic core of regulars who are into narrative, conversions, etc. and not powergaming.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

 

  ... we've had radical inquisitors who would be taken alongside GK since third edition who could have daemonhosts which are no different than summoning daemons in my view.

Are you certain about this. I seem to recall some caviet in DemonHunters about the two being specifically mutually exclusive.

 

With the re-fluff of the Grey Knights, I'd like to think of this as a 'streamlining' of the process. There's fluff precedent about summoned demons who are banished being unable to return for a set period of time. (Angron on Armageddon) So, the knights summon and bind them to cast them against their enemies to banish both of them and mop up the survivors afterward. No more radical than 'armour paint'.

 

I stand corrected by gentleman loser -- you've only been able to field daemonhosts alongside GK since 5th edition, not 3rd. But yeah, what you suggest is no more radical than what you aptly describe as "armour paint". A piece of fluff that really infuriated me initially, but which I work around. Whenever I face GK it's part of my storyline that my puritan inquisitor has hunted down another group of GK that includes members from that Sororitas butchery and he's going to show them the grave error of stooping to such methods in the name of "victory at all costs".

 

Speaking of sisters, given all the fluff out there about fallen sisters, it doesn't strike me as totally impossible for there to be SOME GK who have come under the influence of a radical inquisitor or developed radical ideas of their own.

[DinoDoc]

I agree Number6. Yet the majority of posters here (not the GK subforum ) seem to think that it's easy to say no to Escalation and therefore Unbound, and no one they play with is 'that guy' becuase they won't get games any more...

A Dreadsock settles all of these arguments.