Why is the Black Rage inheritable via geneseed?

[b1soul]

When Sangunius died, the Blood Angels were afflicted with the Black Rage. I don't think the terrible novel Fear to Tread has retconned this. 

 

Now...as I understand it, the Red Thirst is a genetic flaw inherent in BA geneseed. Therefore each new BA recruit is vulnerable to the Red Thirst. 

 

However, the Black Rage is not a genetic flaw. It's a psychic affliction. Sanguinius' death released a psychic backlash afflicting all of his sons. Unless Sanguinius; death somehow altered the geneseed in all of his sons, how is the Black Rage inheritable via geneseed?

 

I suppose that's the only answer: that Sanguinius' geneseed did in fact alter the geneseed inside his sons' bodies. Perhaps, the geneseed held in stasis at the time was not altered...and therefore some BA are much less vulnerable to the Black Rage?  

[Leif Bearclaw]

I believe the Black Rage is inherited due to the blood transfer rituals that are involved in the Astartes transformation process of the Blood Angels. So each generation of Blood Angels/successors pass it on to the next, going back to the original Legionaries who were around when Sanguinius died.

[b1soul]

I believe the Black Rage is inherited due to the blood transfer rituals that are involved in the Astartes transformation process of the Blood Angels. So each generation of Blood Angels/successors pass it on to the next, going back to the original Legionaries who were around when Sanguinius died.

 

A psychic affliction is carried...by blood?

[Leif Bearclaw]

Yeah, blood magic and all that jazz .

Also bear in mind, part of their blood ritual also involves the Primarch's own blood, as dilute as it is by M41. That probably has some effect, for better or worse.

[Kol Saresk]

Actually blood magic does seem to be the theme nowadays. For example, Extermination noted that pre-Corax, rare was the Raven Guard who developed pale skin and rarer was the one who developed black eyes and hair. But once Corax was found, they became widespread traits throughout the Legion. So some sort of psycho-physiological link seems to shown as existing between the Primarchs and their sons. For example, every psyker in the Night Lords Legion has foresight, although it usually isn't quite that powerful as it is in Talos or Decimus.

 

For the Blood Angels, who combined their gene-seed rewritten DNA with pure DNA of a Primarch's literal blood, the chances are the bond was made even stronger. Of course, since even the post-human body was not designed to handle that kind of raw power, we see this manifest as the Red Thirst. Chances are, when the Black Rage came about, it forced a rewriting of the DNA to allow to coexist. So where the Iron Hands temporarily went berserk when Ferrus died and all of the Traitors retreated when Horus died, the Blood Angels just flipped their [cuss] and went mad-hatter bonkers.

[Memento Of Prospero]

We still don't really know what the Primarch really are, and what is their impact on their legion. There are several instances where the blood of a primarch seems to have special qualities. 

 

 

Fear to Tread was awful.

[b1soul]

40K is Space Magic...so I guess we don't need a plausible explanation. Magic suffices

 

I suppose the idea of madness being carried by blood is not that implausible given all the psychic/warp shenanigans going on

[Balthamal]

It is indeed a psychic affliction rather than anything genetic however it's origins were from a combination of elemental rage aka Khorne and one captain who was to all intents and purposes sacrificed to provide the power behind it all. One of the side effects of the whole seemed to be that it was excised or at the very least buried due to Sanguinius' presence or likely his psychic aura  to those around him. Of course when he died you have the double hammer of the means of restraint being removed and also the nature of the gene seed upping the dosage as it were.

 

In Fear to Tread, the psychic backlash of a few hundred Blood Angels being butchered put Sanguinius out so it's a fair assumption that there's a definable psychic link between him and the Legion. With Sanguinius down the whole ragefire seemed to power up exponentially until he came around (although in Vengeful Spirit it was shown that the Blood Angels were still susceptible to the rage around the presence of the Red Angel regardless of Sanguinius being conscious). Taken with the psychic link and the gene-seed essentially providing a log of experiences and sensations, Sanguinius' death would have been a backblast of a far greater magnitude compared to what hit them at Signus Prime.

 

Whether they all devolve into out and out Angel Smash and how they reel it back in afterwards is something we'll have to wait until Terra to find out about 

[tdemayo]

I think the only conclusion possible is that the gene-seed is itself in some way psychic, not merely genetic. Even "normal" geneseed does things that are outright impossible by most scientific understandings -- for example, absorbing memories by eating a target.

 

We know that the Primarchs are enfused with warp powers; even those who are not psykers possess super-powers that are just biologically impossible.  The gene-seed may exist in a psychic link with its forebearer Primarch, capable of feedback and transformation from its progenitor.

Maybe the qualities a Space Marine possesses are only possible because the gene-seed has latent warp powers?   This would also explain why the Legions began to take on traits of their Primarchs after they were recovered, and even why these traits seemingly can be altered over time.  Think of them as being magically-linked and reinforced by proximity. For example, the Death Guard were immune, to the poisons their Lord was exposed to growing up. 

 

It would also, incidentally,why gene-seed must be cultivated and implanted, rather than simply built into a body and cloning the whole package.  The geneseed only works because, in some small way, it remains part of the Primarch (living or dead) and partakes of his warp-forged properties. 

 

Perhaps this is what the Emperor did when he used the Primarch's genetic material to accelerate and reinforce the Space Marines:  He made them into a kind of giant hive body, with the Primarch controlling and affecting the little magic bits of themselves implanted into every Marine.

[Blood Angel Scout]

As previously alluded to, the BA's gene seed is triggered by the infusion of Sang's blood and that as they had to cultivate this from his dead body, this resulted in the link to the primarch's last days, which I hope we see in great detail, the Siege and the very last moments when fighting Horus. Personally I've always thought that at this point, Sang's would be at fury+, extremely heightened attributes-super-primarch mode if you consider Horus is now considered to be equal to the Emperor after Vengeful Spirit, then at death, his body is essentially fixed at this status and imprinted into every cell, older fluff described the effect as a psychic imprint to the geneseed iirc and is the reason the Black Rage exists.

 

As for the Red Thirst...don't think Sanguinius can stop that affecting any of those it takes, hence the search for the cure in the first place

[Plague Angel]

It's a variation on the idea of a generational curse.

 

It's a psychic affliction, but "psychic" in 40k means it's tied to the Warp, with all the demonic energy and sorcery that implies. It's a curse on Sanguinius's bloodline.

 

And it's not the only case of superstitious, vaguely supernatural affects being tied to gene-seed; things like purity of the Guilliman gene-stock and the loyalty and faith of the Ultramarines are always spoken of in the same breath, as though each causes the other. It isn't pure genetics, just like machine-spirits may or may not exist.

[Hyaenidae]

The 'psychic trigger' thing has been alluded to in a number of stories, and has even shown a little Legion overlap. When Guilliman stormed the Bearer's ship in Know No Fear, and the WB balked before a Primarch on the charge. In The Crimson Fist, when the Imperial Fists had to mentally push past their hardwired genetics telling them to run in the opposite direction when Perturabo's door opened.

 

It's not fear, mind you. Their very bodies rebelled at raising their arms against a Demi-God, even though their hearts screamed at them to open fire/charge. I think it simply has a lot to do with the way the Emperor created his sons, a mix between unknown science and warpstuff.

 

It's literally in their blood. The Primarch's coding, and in effect, the Emperor's genetics, flow through their veins. That blood has just as much to do with genetics, as it does alchemy and warpstuff. When that coding is scarred, such as the death of a Primarch, it is literally felt. The Iron Hands may have suffered just as much, but their mentality seems to have drove them towards self-hatred and bitterness. The Angel's death, amongst his most noble of sons, who's genes were already flawed, left a permanent mark on their coding. An open wound, over a open wound, if you will.

[Beta galactosidase]

I think the only conclusion possible is that the gene-seed is itself in some way psychic, not merely genetic. Even "normal" geneseed does things that are outright impossible by most scientific understandings -- for example, absorbing memories by eating a target.

 

We know that the Primarchs are enfused with warp powers; even those who are not psykers possess super-powers that are just biologically impossible. The gene-seed may exist in a psychic link with its forebearer Primarch, capable of feedback and transformation from its progenitor.

Maybe the qualities a Space Marine possesses are only possible because the gene-seed has latent warp powers? This would also explain why the Legions began to take on traits of their Primarchs after they were recovered, and even why these traits seemingly can be altered over time. Think of them as being magically-linked and reinforced by proximity. For example, the Death Guard were immune, to the poisons their Lord was exposed to growing up.

 

It would also, incidentally,why gene-seed must be cultivated and implanted, rather than simply built into a body and cloning the whole package. The geneseed only works because, in some small way, it remains part of the Primarch (living or dead) and partakes of his warp-forged properties.

 

Perhaps this is what the Emperor did when he used the Primarch's genetic material to accelerate and reinforce the Space Marines: He made them into a kind of giant hive body, with the Primarch controlling and affecting the little magic bits of themselves implanted into every Marine.

It's very interesting that you say that. Realms of Chaos gives a timeline that shows the Emperor made the Primarchs to lead humanity and fight chaos, and then only decided to create space marines after the Primarchs disappeared.

 

Primarchs scattered everywhere seem like reasons for aggressive expansion, to steamroll through the galaxy to find the Primarchs before they become corrupted or too independent. I think the reason the Emperor built legions of super soldiers was to recover the Primarchs, not the other way around. The Emperor was obviously capable of creating transhuman legions without geneseed; I think the reason he used the Primarchs to make geneseed was that controlling the new legions was a way to use sympathetic warp energy that drew the Emperor and Primarchs back together.

[Raulmichile]

Sounds interesting. I've never thought it that way.

[Jamafore]

We know he CAN create super soldiers without geneseed, ie them Thunder Warriors, and while it is generally stated that he possibly created them to burn themselves out quickly, possibly it's just that he couldn't create STABLE soldiers without it.

 

Hence why the guy needed it in Outcast Dead. Also hasn't it been stated the one of the things one of the implants does is make sure the others work relatively the way they're supposed to?

[Blood Angel Scout]

The geneseed was made from what was left of the Primarch project and in some cases, the reuniting of primarchs with legions shows the marines demonstrating their fathers traits to a greater degree than those that set out from Terra pre-primarchs whereas the Emperor himself had the psychic link to his sons to find them...I've posted the theory before that maybe the Emperor's original plan was to set out from Terra with essentially one legion, with his sons's as captain's/chapter masters/generals being used to maximise the speed of the crusade, gives a reason to why the "this primarch equals this primarch", two of everything to allow for many combinations of generals to take the lead on, their strengths used to balance and compliment the expansion, instead of meeting up with an army for his lost son to find he already owned one or a planet's worth

 

But then the debate would be back to the nature vs nurture, if they had not been scattered...Angron with no nails, Lorgar with no religion, Lion or Curze without isolation, Magnus with a guide from the beginning or would the Iron Hands be named so...maybe no wings on the Angel....or everything else the setting has pretty much been since 2nd edition....

[Daddywarcrimes]

We still don't really know what the Primarch really are, and what is their impact on their legion. There are several instances where the blood of a primarch seems to have special qualities. 

 

 

Fear to Tread was awful.

 

At this point, I'm pretty much assuming all the primarchs are daemon princes of a sort.  It's why Khan could kill the spectral psychnuen, and Sanguinus's moments of death have a psychic imprint in his blood.