Baneblade

[Frater Cornelius]

Hey, I am considering gettin' a Baneblade.. and yet, I am also considering not to.

 

It is an iconic model, but I am not a collector. I like to use every model I own in games and build their stories as well as their background. But is a BB useful? I was considering the transport variants so I can put my platoon inside with their heavy weapons. But here is the thing: you pay 400-550 points for less firepower than 4 Leman Russ can bring. Sure, BB and it's variants have powerful main guns, but the other weapons are just regular stuff and with BS3 and with the possible Prescience nerf in 7ed, it ain't all that powerful. Also, it is a LoW, meaning that the enemy will get 3 extra VP for killing the 9SP BB. He also gets other boni.

 

Also, I do not know if it is worth using it in a competitive scene. On the other hand, it opens the possibility for me to play small apoc games with 1 super heavy at 2.5k-3k points. But even then I consider 3 Knight to be superior (I would need 2 more).

 

Any comments and experience on that matter? Cheers!

[Clone]

Wait for 7th edition because who knows what rules will change.

[David Ravel]

I have used a couple of variant in games (both apoc and normal with Lords of War), and I must say that the Baneblade, as epic as it is, was always useless. Everything has cover save, shield preventing pen, jink save, invul save, etc. Its a great blast, but totally worthless. I much prefer now the Shadowsword (against deathstar/superheavy) and the Hellhammer. The Hellhammer is quite fragile since it's a 24'' range. But in apoc, no matter where you put your thing, it can die (and probably will). The ignore cover is perfect against infantry and jinks. 

[WarriorFish]

Think of the Baneblade as an oversized Russ, and the "default" super-heavy variant. It'll do all a Russ does but better and more durable, but if you want something specific then try looking at one of the variations.

 

This does mean as David said the Baneblade tends to lose out somewhat but if you don't have a particular role then it's the best choice to fall back on. Maybe wait and see what 7th brings to the table or visit the Apoc section to find out more?

[Frater Cornelius]

It is not limites to the Baneblade variant only. The box includes every BB variant and I am willing to consider all of 'em as Lords of War, if they do anything but lose you the game ;) I also accept FW alternatives :P

[march10k]

SHADOWSWORD FTMFW!!!!

[Ldorte]

I've used mine twice and both times I've used it as a distraction whilst the smaller tanks systematically destroy the opposing army's anti tank units , works great because they are too distracted by the building sized tank and the number of shots pouring out of it to recognise the true threat

[Andhil]

As this is about the Baneblade, and I apologize in advance for hijacking this thread but:

 

I'm sorely tempted to get a Super Heavy. I want to pick a variant that suits my regiment (Overkill doesn't exist, and trigger-happyness) Currently, It's a toss up between a Shadowsword and the Baneblade. I do have to note that I currently do not own any Apoc book, or Escalation (I'm hoping the Super-Heavy rules will be included in 7th ed.)

 

So, what are the main differences in: use, price and the general differences? 

[WarriorFish]

It's not hijacking, the Baneblade and it's variants are almost the same thing after all :) I hate to be boring but the uses of the two tanks are pretty clear - the Shadowsword splats enemy super heavies and the Baneblade is a mega-Russ. It's really as simple as that :P

 

Personally I think that in larger/Apoc style settings the Shadowsword is probably better as it lets you punch holes in enemy SHs which is important. The Baneblade is good, yes, but as an up-scaled 40k tank it doesn't bring anything to the table you don't already get albeit in smaller form. It is great for being a focal point of your armoured might though I reckon, it can draw fire and lead defences well.

 

So in the simplest of terms the difference is the main gun; make your decision on that and you're done! The Baneblade is the iconic original, so it's not a bad default choice in my opinion but it's not coincidence that the 2nd box I got was to build a Shadowsword (these are the older, non-all-in-one boxes).

[Andhil]

Looks like the Shadowsword takes the prize! I must admit to liking that variant more than the Baneblade. Mainly due to my first 40K novel being "Gunheads", which featured the Shadowsword "Angel of the Apocalypse"

(happy coincidence, I bought the book, completely unaware that it was set on Golgotha, the planet I had already chosen to be my Reg's home world. )

Thanks, WarriorFish!

[Frater Cornelius]

Okay, let us put it into contrast. Another SH I have been eying is the Praetor Armoured Assault Launcher from FW. It costs as much as 2 naked LRBT, 6 structure points and is basically a whirlwind on crack. Not sure if I am allowed to post specific weapon characteristics of FW models for those you do not know that the Praetor is shooting.

[WarriorFish]

No problem :)

 

You can talk about stats and such, as long as you don't take the mickey and start pasting in sections etc :)

[Frater Cornelius]

Okay so the praetor has 3 firing modes: 1st one is s8 ap3, ordnance 2, barrage, large blast, twin-linked; 2nd one is s6 ap4, ordnance 2, massive blast (7"), barrage, twin-linked, ignores cover; and the last one is s9 ap3 heavy 2, skyfire, interceptor, twin-linked. All for 300 points and 14/13/12 6SP.

That things vs any of the BB variants. I get mixed opinions at my FLGS, so let's see what the wise people of B&C say.

[WarriorFish]

Sounds like a pretty mean vehicle, the versatility in the weapon firing modes seems very good especially the ability to switch to AA (with interceptor). All this for 300pts too, that's a good deal.

[Frater Cornelius]

Correction: you must choose one firing type at the begin of the game. This limits it a bit, understadably so for 300 points. The firing modes are still strong individually, so I do not see it a such a great downgrade tbh.

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, especially for the ability to add some potent AA to your force should you come across a circus. Not a bad unit for the price at all.

[Frater Cornelius]

But the question is, can the BB or it's variants live up to it?

[WarriorFish]

I think it comes down to what you need, raw hitting power then perhaps the Praetor is best but the BB tanks are tough with lots of guns. If you don't quite have the points for one though then the Praetor will be an Emperor send. I think the Praetor is probably better overall, considerations for what your list requires aside.

[march10k]

But the question is, can the BB or it's variants live up to it?

The Shadowsword can.  "I clipped your land raider with a thumbnail of my large blast in spite of scattering 8 inches, please remove the model."  Strike one.  "No, you don't understand, those thundernators don't get a save."  Strike two.  "what?  A void shield generator is protecting you?  Ok, four lascannons later, it's not, then here comes the strength D template once the shields are down."  Stike three!

 

I love the Praetor, but it comes in second to the titan weapon mounted on a tank, even though it costs nearly twice as much (50% more if you skip the sponsons).  Praetor is better for the points, but the shadowsword is your ultimate answer to any question except for fliers.

[Andhil]

But the question is, can the BB or it's variants live up to it?

The Shadowsword can. "I clipped your land raider with a thumbnail of my large blast in spite of scattering 8 inches, please remove the model." Strike one. "No, you don't understand, those thundernators don't get a save." Strike two. "what? A void shield generator is protecting you? Ok, four lascannons later, it's not, then here comes the strength D template once the shields are down." Stike three!

I love the Praetor, but it comes in second to the titan weapon mounted on a tank, even though it costs nearly twice as much (50% more if you skip the sponsons). Praetor is better for the points, but the shadowsword is your ultimate answer to any question except for fliers.

SOLD!

[Frater Cornelius]

Though I do believe that void shields and strength D blasts do more in apocalypse. This is me considering a Lord of War. And a Shadowsword WILL dry my bank at 1850, I won't even talk about 1500 (though at 1000 it would be hilarious). It isn't about all out destruction but rather to maximize what you get out of your points. As right now, the versatility and price/performance I believe the praetor is leading. But it is still a FW model with all the ''goodness'' that implies it and BB box is plastic, cheaper AND gives me the possibility to magnetise to field multiple tanks. So I am still open minded and I am still open to the possibility to reason about the use of a Shadowsword. Consdier this however, the SS is a massive target and at 1850 there is enough AT to pop it round 1. The Praetor is smaller and does not require LoS and has 120" range, you can hide is somewhere.

But here is another question. Is a LoW really worth it? Considering how much I love the Imperial Knight, maybe it would be better to stock up to 3 Knights instead? How will a BB look next to a Knight in an army? Do they complement given the fluff and aestethics? The Praetor is at least artillery and won't steal the spotlight in a Knight House.

So I am still open minded to all opinions. And march, good job representing the Shadowsword, keep it going

[WarriorFish]

Don't forget that in 7th Strength D is getting toned down apparently, from what I gather invulnerable saves work now (at least in some form?) but it is suggested that a roll of a 6 incurs the wrath of D we all know and love (or hate, depending!).

 

Even so, that sort of fire power just can't be ignored as march says. You point the Shadowsword at something and can almost guarantee it goes away :P

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Is it possible to magnetise the Baneblade kit in order to field any of the variants as you see fit?

[march10k]

I'm curious about how D will work. I had heard that the auto-kill of non-super-heavy vehicles was gone, but I hadn't heard anything about invuls being allowed. Personally, I'd just add a table for vehicles with the "heavy" rule, and still let rhinos and such be auto-removed. And if anything, allow invuls, but either reduce them to a max of 5+, or make you reroll successes.

[David Ravel]

Is it possible to magnetise the Baneblade kit in order to field any of the variants as you see fit?

There is different turret set up, and therefore that would be possible but very time consuming. There is one with the big turret, big turret + transport space behind and the normal baneblade turret. Look at pictures you'll understand.